To think that non-binary candidates are more unlikely to be offered a job?

[GinnyPiggie]

I have a non-binary child in their twenties and they are really struggling to secure work.

It might be unfair of me, but I really think that in presenting themselves as non-binary, they are going to struggle to be offered a job with the vast majority of employers. Yes this might be pure discrimination but personally I'd be worried about HR issues and getting sued for saying the wrong thing.

AIBU to think that if you have a range of good candidates, you are going to be reluctant to hire a non-binary candidate because of the potential for issues in the office?

Most people above about 26 are going to cringe at that as an opening statement in an interview, aside from very lefty organisations. I can pretty much guarantee it won't be helping your child to get a job.

The issue with this is that in believing they have an "identity [that] is more than just appearance or behavior; it’s about how they see themselves and want to be recognized. Names and pronouns are a big part of that—non-binary folks often use gender-neutral pronouns like “they/them” to reflect their identity. So, while there are many ways people can break gender norms, non-binary is a distinct category that represents a particular experience of gender that doesn’t fit into the traditional binary framework." they are basically defining themselves against a non-non-binary identity they assume others are experiencing.

In other words, to identify yourself as non-binary unavoidably means imposing the traditional binary framework on everyone else based only on the NB person's assumptions about other people and regardless of whether they do in fact identify that way.

Now, as long as that sexist idea stays inside their own head it's ok (I guess). However, at the point they expect their non-binary identity to be respected and treated as an objective fact, for example expecting others to use non-binary pronouns for them, thereby differentiating them from people who use he or she, it goes beyond personal belief in who other people are and into putting those people into the NB's belief system.

That is what most people object to - not how the NB feels internally but at finding themselves pigeonholded by the NB's prejudices and not having the right/support to reject this.

Pronouns on a CV - I would bin the CV as I don't think that person would necessarily fit in well with my existing team.

Pronouns in person - would essentially immediately mark them as a no. I don't give a shit about their pronouns and i would only foresee problems.

How can you possibly be non binary, and a female lesbian? Contradictory nonsense.

Exactly. And of course, gender critical beliefs are a protected characteristic too.

Some people look great on applications but simply don't interview well - might it be worth getting some coaching for this if it's becoming a pattern?

Most colleagues would be pissed off having to call someone 'they'. It's unnatural language and require compliance with a belief that won't be shared by everyone.

I can see why a potential employer would want to steer clear so yes, I do think your DD would be discriminated against but only because of your DD's discrimination against the beliefs of others.

Practise your belief privately, or engage with it privately at work but do not expect others to be forced to join in.

You should treat non-binary people no different to Jedi. Acknowledge how they define themselves and that it is based on fiction.

Agree, but you have to be careful with LinkedIn as they tricked a lot of people into putting pronouns into their profiles.

Good. I take it that your new colleague didn't walk into the interview and say 'I'm X and I'm non-binary, my pronouns are they/them'? This is what the OP says her young adult child does.

My DS is filling in loads of applications ATM and they all ask how you identify, so assume they filter on that.

You're right. It is contradictory nonsense. It's a mental illness.

The honest answer is yes, it would put people off hiring. Also it's not discrimination as being non binary isn't a protected characteristic.

I'll tell you who really doesn't appreciate the question 'could you be pregnant?'; it's the 6' hairy, drunk, burly trucker on a Friday night in an X-ray department.

But legally we have to ask.

This is where this 'identity' nonsense leads.

I do wonder if it's easier before interview stage to discard an application rather than interview a candidate then refuse as they genuinely feel the applicant wasn't the right person than to have a battle on your hands due to refusal being seen as 'you refused me because I'm xyz and you're ist'

I'd guess there's a correlation between asking how you identify and being fine with someone declaring pronouns in an interview?

It may be another reason for an employer to be cautious about hiring someone who may or may not have a protected characteristic. The last thing anyone wants to do is become a 'test case'.

No they didn't @YesterdaysFuture you have the choice to do it or not. I don't. Because it's fictitious daft nonsense, and it's not relevant to my career.

i work in IT, great place for lgbtq+ and any other minorities. If you have the qualifications and we can have a nice chat for a while, then i would hire you. No matter what your pronouns are.

It's called having one's binary and eating it.

Why, exactly, are they saying that?

Hi, I'm Fred, nice to meet you" is fine. It's not "being non binary" that is the problem here, it's being a twit.

According to the 300+ LGBT+ charities which form part of the LGBT Consortium, that is not the correct definition of a lesbian.

In the Mermaids v Charity Commission and LGB Alliance tribunal, the witness from the LGBT Consortium said that the LGB Alliance is a transphobic hate group, in part because it defines a lesbian as a biologically female person who is attracted to biologically female people, and stated that no organisation using this trans exclusionary definition of the word lesbian was welcome within their membership.

Nancy Kelley (the former CEO of Stonewall) also said that lesbians who aren't willing to include trans women within their potential dating pool are akin to sexual racists.

I wish this was satire but sadly it's not.

I don’t see how you can discriminate against something that doesn’t exist.

Sorry, DadJoke, I was initially at least, having a little joke (non-joke joke) at how it could be read two ways, until I thought further and that someone's declared non-whatever might not a million miles from vibes, although 'non binary' would be more about non-vibing. It is about non-gender after all.

Whether I am a muppet may depend on how I feel when I wake up and declare what I am for the day. You on the other hand might be one for assuming a person would be a bigot for stating 'non minority' when my question was intended to be understood as 'What if your 'minorities' stated 'non-minority? '

Apart from that, nearly every statement of yours that I have read so far on this thread has been wrong in some or all particulars.

When I was in my 20s I did a little experiment and changed my name to a diminutive that cld be male or female and applied for a load of jobs after 12 months of applying for shed loads. I got 50% more interviews with the diminutive than with my female name on the CV (yes just CV in those days) why is this really any different. (took me 14 mths and yes one of the apps got me a job, civil service can't say once I was in, ever felt discriminated against but my boss was great for the first two years - was sad to leave his dept although I still worked with him for various reasons)

If they do discriminate do they really want to work there anyway - would they be happy etc.

I would just pick and choose carefully where to apply, look to get them some experience somewhere useful and Good Luck.