To think that non-binary candidates are more unlikely to be offered a job?

[GinnyPiggie]

I have a non-binary child in their twenties and they are really struggling to secure work.

It might be unfair of me, but I really think that in presenting themselves as non-binary, they are going to struggle to be offered a job with the vast majority of employers. Yes this might be pure discrimination but personally I'd be worried about HR issues and getting sued for saying the wrong thing.

AIBU to think that if you have a range of good candidates, you are going to be reluctant to hire a non-binary candidate because of the potential for issues in the office?

@BlueLimeRun And, in the 'right' organisation, those people could have a job for life.

*Literally everyone has a pronoun preference attached to them, they are a basic function of grammar and it's a fact like your name or shoe size. You may not go around telling people your shoe size but it still exists.^

Foot size is to fact
as sex ( not gender) is to fact

I agree with this. Employers have obligations to all of the people who work for and with the business. I've worked in small businesses most of my life and my partner owns one. The impact on the wider dynamics is hugely important. I don't think we are doing our young people any favours by encouraging them to make gender identity front and centre of everything that they do.

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/section/7

Doesn't say anything about NB being protected under the gender reassignment section.

I think that is only certain large, very prominent, multinational-type organisations. The majority run-of-the-mill small/medium/large businesses and employers don't buy into the rubbish. It's nowhere near as important as the prominent GOs/NGOs and large corporates/conglomerates make it seem to be. It might be important at McDonalds or Starbucks, but at CooperWatsonWhatever medium-sized law firm, it's won't be. The McDonalds and Starbucks and Virgin and Tescos don't represent the majority of employers.

Bringing your whole self to work is nonsense. People need to bring their professional selves to work.

Do you mean the guaranteed interview scheme? That doesn't cover LGBTQetc.

If it's any consolation to the OP, my most recently hired colleague is non-binary. There were two excellent candidates for the job, and in the end it came down to who was the best fit for the team and the non-binary candidate had the edge. Zero drama, great working environment, happy team.

Yes makes sense but is a ridiculous comparison.

Deluded, self obsessed nonsense is not the same as Caring responsibilities.

FFS.

To put it bluntly, it's a fad and it's on its way out.

The OP's daughter and others like her are starting to look like people who still think "live laugh love" artwork is trendy.

Totally agree with this. We have a girl on our team who is amazing at her job, diligent, proactive, creative.

She goes to raves at the weekend and regularly has “wild ones”

She never misses a day off her work though. If she brought her “whole self” to work it might be a bit different. 😂

It could be a problem of course if they were going for a job as a computer programmer.

Boom boom.

It's also not even true, because even some of the people who buy into the gender belief system state they're happy to use any pronouns.

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-9515/

'Current law

No legal recognition

Non-binary genders are not recognised in UK law. The Gender Recognition Act 2004 (GRA) enables a person to change the sex recorded on their birth certificate, either from male to female or vice versa. It makes no provision for the recognition of any other gender.

Legal protection

In general terms, legal protection from discrimination is based upon having – or being perceived as having – a “protected characteristic”, as defined in the Equality Act 2010. In 2020, the Birmingham Employment Tribunal held that people who are gender fluid, non-binary or transitioning can have the protected characteristic of gender reassignment (PDF).'

Clear as mud, then.

oh definitely- that’s really apparent in some sectors. Doesn’t help with our activity in the team though… and it’s not fair that others have to pick up this workload.

I'm not entirely sure how this is actually relevant to the employment discussion, but sure!

Firstly, because I'm nonbinary. That "T" at the end of LGBT+, in my and many others' opinion that includes being nonbinary as a part of the broader "trans umbrella." While not all nonbinary people have the same experience, I have suffered gender dysphoria for over fifteen years and I have changed my name and had one gender-affirming surgery as part of my transition. I now consider my transition complete. For people who don't consider nonbinary as part of the trans umbrella, it tends to fall under the "+".

Secondly, because I'm a lesbian. I am biologically female and attracted to biologically female people.

Yes it did.

Scotgov's Non Binary Working Group fizzled out without even a whimper, by the look of it.

https://www.gov.scot/groups/non-binary-working-group/

My work literally encouraged non binary people to apply in the spec.

here we are, saying that someone who will expect to "bring their whole self to an interview" won't get past first base.
baffling.

Really? Did you not see the rubber fetishist guy at the NSPCC who photographed himself having a wank at work in his rubber gear? There have been others but he's the one I remember.
https://www.rollonfriday.com/news-content/exclusive-nspcc-admits-employees-rubber-clad-smut-serious-incident-after-barristers
A lot of HR people took note. Bringing your whole self to work was an idea that's been discarded by any organisation that's looking for efficiency.

Businesses are about making money. If you recruit someone colleagues feel uneasy with, or someone who's whole self is narcissistic or offensive, you risk losing good workers who know what they're doing and you end up with the self-obsessed arseholes who'll freak your clients. You risk ETs and the costs of lawyers and dismissal processes. What most employers want are people who'll do their work efficiently, rub along with colleagues and clients and not regard the workplace as their place to perform.

But this quotation is from an ET judgment not EAT or higher level court. It is not case law, is it? No obligation then for an employer to follow it surely.

How can you be a lesbian if you’re non binary?

Lesbians are - by definition - female. Not they/thems

No everyone doesn’t have pronouns on their email signature or LinkedIn unless they choose to.

We were told adding our pronouns was not mandatory but ‘strongly recommended, - less than 10.% of my office has actually added theirs.

There was a section in our diversity training asking what we could do personally to be an ally for trans people at work. My responses was I am equally polite to everyone however I do not believe in gender ideology and I believe sec is binary. I have interviewed 100’s possibly 1000’s of candidates on my career and I very rarely see CV’s where pronouns are used. I think in my long career I’ve only seen one candidate whose CV stated they were non binary. They got the job and ended up being a complete PITA who caused endless drama and confrontation.

Being gender critical is a protected belief and it’s a very common one.

Correct. But they don't want to hear it. We just have to hope that people reading who need accurate information about the law on this issue are able to get it.

Hahaha