To think that non-binary candidates are more unlikely to be offered a job?

[GinnyPiggie]

I have a non-binary child in their twenties and they are really struggling to secure work.

It might be unfair of me, but I really think that in presenting themselves as non-binary, they are going to struggle to be offered a job with the vast majority of employers. Yes this might be pure discrimination but personally I'd be worried about HR issues and getting sued for saying the wrong thing.

AIBU to think that if you have a range of good candidates, you are going to be reluctant to hire a non-binary candidate because of the potential for issues in the office?

So so good to see so many employers who aren't putting up with this nonsense any more.
And to the poster who said mumsnet is a bubble - it really really isn't. It's a cross section of mums from literally every demographic, who work in all sorts of roles, and are almost unanimous in being critical of gender woo.

You think minorities are based on vibes. Maybe you've hit on something.

What if their application stated 'non-minority'?

I wouldn’t care how someone identifies when recruiting, I just want to appoint the best person for the job to make my life easier. We blind recruit anyway so I don’t know someone’s gender until they turn up if they have a gender neutral name.

I’ve had a colleague come out as non-binary and worked with someone that was recruited already out, I just asked them what pronouns they’d like me to use and moved on. I’m a professional there to do a job, not unpack other people’s lives and choices.

My nephew can't get a job and he has a degree and great grades. It's tough job market.

Being gay or transgender is not poltical. It's a protected characteristic, which all employers need to respect. LGBT people are the opposite of homophobic and misogynistic, and parents who crush their children's sexuality or gender identity are abusers. People who make transphobia their whole personality are not likely to be good employers.

I wouldn't hire them sorry.

You may not be aware, but 'gender identity' is not universally accepted as referring to anything extant. Rather like 'guardian angel' or 'immortal soul'.

If someone shows up for interview and expresses their belief in their guardian angel, I'd be unlikely to hire them. ... Not, you should note, because they believe in the existence of guardian angels, but because expressing such a belief in a job interview is inappropriate. Same for gender identity.

Being honest, as soon as someone starts off by giving their pronouns, my inner reaction is "Oh heck..."

Women have used supposedly male names for years - I've known Chris, Pat, Andy...The problem is that as soon as pronouns are given, it sounds a bit dictatorial.

I've been applying for jobs and I'm sure this has been a question on the application form for some public sector roles - whether that info is passed to interview panel I don't know.

When you go to a job interview you don't rock up, stick out you hand and say

"Hello, I'm Alex and a Christian"
"Hello, I'm Alex and same sex attracted"
Hello, I'm Alex and a mother of 3"
Hello, I'm Alex and a vegan"
"Hello, I'm Alex and a big Arsenal fan"
And you don't say
"Hello, I'm Alex and my preferred pronouns are...." IE when I'm not here anymore I want to dictate how you speak about me.

You say something like
Hello, I'm Alex, and really grateful you took time to see me today / glad to be here / excited to apply for this opportunity"

Based on your vibes, you muppet.

If someone put non-minority on their application, I'd make the very reasonable assumption that they were a bigot.

Do they actually, genuinely go around saying "my name is and my pronouns are..." because I'd be seriously concerned about mental health issues if they did. Do they have ASD? So many who claim to be 'non-binary' have autism.

FWIW I'd absolutely consider a non-binary person as a candidate. Furthermore I can imagine for the right person, the challenges they face and

I'm intrigued. What challenges does a non-binary person face?

I ask because I'm an older lesbian. When I was young I had fewer rights than the straight population. I couldn't marry, I couldn't have a share of my partner's pension, my partner and I were turned away from hotels and guests houses, asked to leave restaurants and bars because they didn't want queers there... I could be sacked for being lesbian. I'd love to know what kind of challenges a non-binary person thinks they face today. And above all, I'd love to know what non-binary actually means. Can you help me with that?

I'd consider anyone qualified for the job, irrespective of what they look like. Don't care if your hair cut is like a boy or a girl, or how you dress etc as long as you are clean and smart. However, someone introducing themself with their beliefs about gender identify to me at an interview would be a huge red flag as an employer.

Unless you go into that interview telling everyone you're a Sagittarius.

No one needs to know you're a Sagittarius. They might guess you're one, but they do not need to know.

Do they have pronouns in their email signature, or their CV, cos that is a no-no for recruiters.

Pronouns = potential pain in the arse employee.

So a man seeing women and saying "I know what I think a woman is, and I can be one too, even though woman is the word for the adult female of the human species and I am not, I will say I am a woman and women must accept me as such" isn't misogynistic? Saying "I am a lesbian and lesbians can have penises and disagreeing or not including me in your dating pool makes you a genital fetishist" isn't homophobic?

@GinnyPiggie this thread has filled up quicker than I can read it.
Mumsnet is not trans friendly due to the risks to women and girls. Some TW have committed violent crimes and that is what sticks in people's memories.
My natal daughter identifies as a FTM. They use a male name, they like your daughter can't get a job. Luckily they have chosen an academic career but she desparately wanted a part time job for the cash and company. No luck in nearly two years of trying. They drive and have a reliable car too.
The only indentifer on their CV is their email. Their header is in their birth name to match their qualifications.
I employ all sorts of people and have no issue with employing trans people but I don't think it becomes relevant until you are hired and asked what you want to be called.
A trans life is a hard life. You will suffer discrimination and aggression. Does your daughter want that? Are her feelings so strong that's the life she chooses?
Lots of new wave trans people are ND and they find their tribe in the community.
My experience is that it can be toxic leading to unhappiness and poor relationships.
I love my daughter with all my heart. Her choices at 21 are not my business but my life experiences tell me she makes things harder for herself. Perhaps a honest conversation with your daughter will help her. People are inclusive to a point but as this thread has shown it's the fear of her behaviour that's costing her a job not her name.

No it’s not, I’m currently working in a team of 13 and wouldn’t have a clue what anyone’s star sign is. But I know what gender they all are. I know that Gary is a man and Ann is a woman. And I would presumably know if one of them identified as non-binary, because I would be falling over myself not to say the wrong thing. If I said ‘Charlie has gone on her break now’ as opposed to ‘Charlie has gone on their break now’ will I get hauled in to HR? Is that a warning? Is Charlie going to complain?

Loads of employers would be frightened to death of saying the wrong thing. It’s really hard to keep track of the right terms to use. So yes I agree with the OP I think it would put people off. Practically it might raise issues with the staff toilets, trips away. I’ve often been asked to share rooms with female colleagues. It’s an extra headache that bosses may well be cautious of.

Well we only do blind recruitment so I'm not aware of any applicant's name, sex race or age when I shortlist people. Or indeed whether they are non-binary or any other gender.

We do have a non binary person in our staff team and their gender isn't an issue for anyone. We also have gay, black and disabled people in our staff team and the same applies.

If an individual wrote to me asking for a job and in that letter decided they were going to highlight their protected characteristics (whatever they were), unless for the purposes of requesting a reasonable adjustment, I might assume that they would be militant about if if they were hired. I would suggest your child OP stays quiet about this until they are offered a job.

Resorting to insults, nice.

Would you be as open, inclusive and non-bigoted to an applicant who rocked up and declared themselves gender critical? Also a protected belief. I’d bet my last Twix you wouldn’t.

I mean if I had 2 candidates and one was a woman and one was a woman who didn't want anyone e to refer to her as a woman and we all had to adjust our language to refer to her as a plural I know which woman I would employ.

Plus I feel like people who have this outlook and to be very entitled and I'd worry that if anyone didn't want to go along with the facade they would be a PITA about it.

Just cos you say a thing doesn't mean it's true you know! I can find you plenty of examples of misogynistic G and T people. Not just implicitly misogynist because the belief in that personalities align to man- or womanhood is misogynist even if they haven't thought it through that far, but blatantly, take-your-breath-away, vilely sexist. L,G,B and T people are people, some of whom will be lovely and well meaning (other than in the sense that if they are T, or LGB but buy into the concept of T, they have that inherent, probably unexamined sexism), and some of whom will be nasty, selfish and not great to work with.

Leonising someone because of a protected characteristic ("T" of course is not one, it's the act or intention to transition that is protected, but that's a sidetrack) is just as reductive of people as demonising them.

I’m afraid this is an illustration of why many employers would, rightly or wrongly, avoid hiring the OP's DC. Nobody wants all their employees to have to remember to say "Derek was just telling me about the new dress they bought yesterday" or risk facing accusations of bigotry.