To think that non-binary candidates are more unlikely to be offered a job?

[GinnyPiggie]

I have a non-binary child in their twenties and they are really struggling to secure work.

It might be unfair of me, but I really think that in presenting themselves as non-binary, they are going to struggle to be offered a job with the vast majority of employers. Yes this might be pure discrimination but personally I'd be worried about HR issues and getting sued for saying the wrong thing.

AIBU to think that if you have a range of good candidates, you are going to be reluctant to hire a non-binary candidate because of the potential for issues in the office?

I think it depends upon the industry and whether EDI is prioritised within it - ie, being LGBTQI+ is something that should be highlighted at CV creation/application stage. Ie, is she in the Hotel & Leisure industry and applying for trainee management roles in Gay bars/clubs? Or is she is applying to be a trainee chartered accountant or a camera technician at a TV company where gender identity has bugger all to do with the role and of no significance to service users/clients? Then frankly, yes, foregrounding her status is likely to be a turn off to prospective employers who couldn’t care less about pronouns and do not want to potentially allocate so much as 5mins of their limited HR staff to disputes between staff or unwanted EDI training.

Many employers really do just want competent staff who bring their professional selves to work and leave their authenticity for out of hours socialising.

It may matter when it comes to changing rooms, showers, toilets, maternity rights, etc. All of which are relevant to sex, of course, not 'gender'.

It is not a "personality trait" any more than being gay or disabled is a personality trait. It's a protected characteristic.

Rights and wrongs aside, I think it would put some people off. I do know someone who is non binary but thinks that it is confusing and difficult for other people to work out. For an easy life he just goes by the pronouns of his sex at work. Might work for your DD. It could be like having a married name but keeping your maiden name for work.

If your daughter (let's face it, non binaries are nearly always female) is struggling to find work perhaps she needs to look at why. Is she coming across as potentially being a challenging person to employ?

T is misogynistic and homophobic.

T is based on the concept of gender, which is a belief system. Some people believe in it, others don't. Lots and lots of LGB don't. They know that their sexuality is based on same-sex attraction. T people don't recognise that sex is important. They think gender feelings are more important. So you've got one group who say sex isn't important and that it's totally acceptable for a man with a penis to call himself a woman and force his way into the lesbian disco because he defines himself as a lesbian. And you've got the other group, who are attracted to people because of their physical sex, who say 'Get out of here Brian, you're a man.'

It's funny, leaving their "authentic selves" at home tends to apply to straight, white, cisgender people. We've heard all this before. It used to be that a gay person couldn't mention their engagement with colleagues, now they can.

Transgender people are just as professional as anyone else.

It is not a "personality trait" any more than being gay or disabled is a personality trait. It's a protected characteristic.

Well it's a belief isn't it? The same as religion and being gender critical are (protected) beliefs.

If their CV was much the same as others I’d filter it out because of my experience with NB people. In a small and friendly working environment it’s just not worth the risk.

An outstanding CV would make it through, obviously, but personality and fervour in an interview would be watched carefully.

I may be biased though. The 10-12 NB women I’ve met/worked with have all been attention seeking pains in the arse. I’ve worked with others whose personalities jar with the group, and they have a similar style of coming across. If I had a way to filter them out too I would.

Here's the Equality Act 2010:
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/contents

Please identify where being non-binary is a protected characteristic.

It's not. Stop spreading disinformation.

Used to be that we genuinely didn’t know or care whether our colleagues were gay/straight/married or had children. We just cared that they could do their job brilliantly so that the company flourished and we could all go home on time…

I think this is a situation where, assuming your child's experience allows some flexibility, they will need to check out the company before applying and try to ascertain their openness to diversity. Lots of larger companies pay lip service to it but that doesn't always translate down into the hiring stream but generally, larger international companies who have a strong public facing service, might be more likely to be open to hiring. Thinking they want/need to represent their users more. It's a pain and shouldn't be a necessary step but I would look at is as making sure that, once your child is in work, that the company will be supportive.

No, that's transphobic to called gender a belief! It's a thing. Transwomen are women, no debate and all that.

Based on this explanation I’d say about 90% of humans are non binary. Since about 90% don’t conform fully to gender stereotypes.

For example, I am female but I like physics, science fiction and wearing trousers. I dislike beauty treatments and prosecco. I guess I must be non binary?

I’ve yet to see any explanation of non binary that manages to explain how non binary people are somehow in a different category from all the rest of us who also don’t fully conform to gender stereotypes. Is it perhaps all about names and pronouns? Are they the only important non conformities?

👍👍👍

Agree that the job market for Gen Z is absolutely awful at the moment.

I know many who are desperate to find a job, are making hundreds of applications and often don't even get an acknowledgment, let alone an interview. Meanwhile, they are constantly being portrayed in the press as lazy and entitled 'quiet quitters'.

World's gone mad!

Yup.

I now use my married name. If I'd started an interview with "I'm Weary AuldWumman", but my maiden name was "Pavlović", the interviewer would be wondering why on earth I would need to give that information - was I trying to set up a claim for discrimination?

To be blunt well yes, putting the fact that you are non-binary on your CV screams navel gazing, drama llama. I would dread the “I want to be referred to as xyz and the inevitable whinging when people correctly identify your sex”.

I’ve never felt the need to out my sexual orientation or my feelings about gender stereotypes on a CV, I wouldn’t expect an employer to give a shit.

Supportive of what exactly?

The fact this woman says she’s neither female or male?

Shes clearly got mental health issues! And will presumably kick off if anyone accidentally calls her “she” instead of they/them

Thanks @Pluvia you explained that better than me. I am interested in the answer for similar reasons to you.

I think this thread is getting a bit muddled, trans and non-binary is being used interchangeably for example and I would normally hold those to be different, although I don’t have the knowledge to know why. But I think the middle aged lesbian perspective on this is useful which is why I locked into your comment.

When working with someone who doesn’t conform to traditional ideas of gender norms, maybe in how they dress or speak, behave or the things that they are interested in I might have the time to run down my list of available labels and land on non-binary. But why would it be important for me to be told that, particularly at interview?

Sure, it was established in a tribunal case:

www.springhouselaw.com/knowledge-hub/discrimination-bullying-and-harassment/are-non-binary-people-protected-against-workplace-discrimination

I have gay colleagues, I have vegetarian colleagues and I have Muslim colleagues. When chatting, they are likely to mention their partners, or a great veggie restaurant they went to the other night or the fact they are fasting because of a religious observance. Cool beans. Nobody is saing things like "you must only eat vegetarian food around me because meat offends me" or "when you say 'Mohammed' you must say 'peace be upon him", even if they're thinking those thoughts.

But my former non-binary colleague required everyone to tie themselves in knots to use they/them pronouns. Meetings involving this person were tense because nobody wanted to get it wrong and upset him. And the odd occasion people did get it wrong, because it's fecking difficult, people winced and felt awkward. Other characteristics don't require capitulation to some annoying recently established and hard to follow social rules. It's why non-binary status also attracts narcissists who enjoy the control they wreak on others. Not saying all NB people are narcissists, but it's a status that attracts that kind of personality.

@GinnyPiggie

Could they branch out into a new field in which there might be more opportunities, OP?

Only reading end-thread posts here and there, not sure that I want to read the whole thread as it probably won't be good for my blood pressure. But just wanted to add (for OP's sake more than anything).... there is no such thing as 'non-binary'. It 'exists' only as a fad to make people feel special and unique. In truth, none of us 100% adhere to our sex's stereotypes. There are around 9 billion people on the planet. With 9 billion different personalities. That's it. No one is 'binary'. 'non-binary' is not a thing and never has been except for around the last 8 years and OP I'd sit your daughter down and have a serious talk with them and ask them why they feel they are 'non-binary', what they get from it, and what it does for them when they claim 'non-binary' status. Try and talk some sense into her. There is obviously a need for her to fit in to some cult or movement especially if she is insecure. But nonsense like this will hinder her chances of getting a job. Many employers said they shred resumes/cover letters without fully reading them if they have pronouns on them. And if she goes around randomly announcing her pronouns (something never done before in civilisation except for around the last 8 or so years), she is going to look unhinged and she'll start clearing rooms. Employers (and general society) have had enough. This pronoun fad is starting to take it's last breath.