To think that non-binary candidates are more unlikely to be offered a job?

[GinnyPiggie]

I have a non-binary child in their twenties and they are really struggling to secure work.

It might be unfair of me, but I really think that in presenting themselves as non-binary, they are going to struggle to be offered a job with the vast majority of employers. Yes this might be pure discrimination but personally I'd be worried about HR issues and getting sued for saying the wrong thing.

AIBU to think that if you have a range of good candidates, you are going to be reluctant to hire a non-binary candidate because of the potential for issues in the office?

It didn't illustrate your point though. As this thread isn't about judging on appearance.

All you have done is reveal that you have underlying racist ideas. I've never seen a clearer example of unconscious racist bias.

This!

@ComtesseDeSpair has nailed it. It’s has nothing at all to do with being binary, and everything to do with banging on about it in the wrong context.

I conduct numerous interviews and have often turned up not knowing someone’s gender. Never have they opened with “I’m a heterosexual female, pleased to meet you” so I don’t expect similar from anyone else.

This was only an ET decision and therefore not binding

No I was making a point against merrymarys initial post about fitting into the team.
Most people who can read would understand that.

Honestly, as an employer, yes it would put me off. But only because firstly I would assume that they had a load of other random fringe beliefs and that would make me question their general critical thinking and intelligence. And secondly I would assume they’d get in a huff over being called he or she and it would just be tedious to be tiptoeing around something that I think is akin to making your whole personality about your star sign.

Aren’t we all making assumptions about those who are “hiring” OP child?
Maybe the hiring people are NB themselves and so not “discriminating” at all.

There are just better qualified /experienced people getting the jobs.

Don’t assume that all employers are Binary Boomers!

I am not even sure why it is relevant.
Have they tried to apply for jobs without disclosing it?

I feel terrible for even thinking it but from my experience with non binary they tend to come across as hard work and want everyone to know they are NB.

Literally no one but your child cares about their "non binary" identity.

My views come from a personal experience as to how troublesome certain groups can be.
About 8 years ago, I was doing a research study looking into links between certain diseases and nutritional patterns. In order to do this, I needed some very basic information that included sex, age and race/ethnicity. The only participants who dropped out, were those citing issues that they had to give male or female or that it was biological sex requested. All information was confidential and names were not even compulsory, just a contact email if they would like to see a copy of the research results, but that wasn't good enough for several people,

I can say, it was at this point, that I realised we were heading towards a downward spiral when it comes to honesty, reality, delusion and facts.

FWIW I'd absolutely consider a non-binary person as a candidate. Furthermore I can imagine for the right person, the challenges they face and the ability to think outside what's usually done would be advantages that help them develop great insight and skills. If that came across in an interview it would be a positive for me.

It's no different to interviewing a strongly religious or #woo person, I may not share their beliefs but I can recognise those beliefs may still engender good character traits or capabilities.

The only black mark would be if they came across as intolerant of others' diversity or as having a fixed perspective.

No, stating pronouns is not the same as the other characteristics you list because those pronouns are only used by other people. Being gay, vegan, Jedi, 55 etc. will not affect co-workers. Demanding that other people comply with your opinions about "gender identity", and making a fuss if they accidentally or deliberately do not comply with your wishes because they hold different opinions, will always affect others - and also, rightly or wrongly, could be viewed as being an indicator of a demanding, self-obsessed personality.

Blue hair.

We turned down an aggressive lesbian, not because she was a lesbian but because she wasn't qualified in the engineering field. Plant and tool hire.

She went to work for the council. Six months later she sued them for a lot of money and won. The council hired large plant from our company, apparently she was a nightmare to work with, wouldn't take advice and knew bugger all about plant and tools.

Honestly, I wouldn't hire either.
Same as I wouldn't hire anyone who marched in and said
"Hi I'm Joel and I'm a practising Christian".
"Hi I'm Steve and I'm a furry" etc etc.
It's not relevant to the role and just tells me that that is the thing that they felt was the most important one for me to know.

When there are multiple qualified candidates for the role, you are going to go with the one that fits your team and doesn't have people walking on eggshells around them or who could be a potential future HR nightmare.

An interview isn't the place for proselytising about your political activism.

How is choosing a traditional male name presenting as non-binary? Shouldn't she choose a traditionally non-sexed name such as Alex, Sam, Chris or even Steve? And if everyone starts the conversation saying it is an unusual name for a woman, then she is clearly a woman and nobody is confused about her sex.

To me it just highlights that your daughter wants to provoke controversy or at least bring the conversation onto gender identity by inviting the question about it being an unusual name.

If someone wants to make their gender an important part of their cover letter or application form, you wont be getting through the door here. Advertising yourself as a hard work, HR timebomb is not going to do you many favours.

I would not hire a non binary (or trans) person. I would assume they/them are an attention seeking drama queen honestly. A woman, using a mans name, declaring that she is neither sounds like a nightmare tbh.

justleggingsandatee · Today 13:30
I don't disagree with this, I'm sure this happens and to an extent I can understand why. I agree that someone who feels the need to put this on a CV sounds like someone who is more hung up on themselves than the job.
However, I work with a young woman in her mid 20s. Biological female, looks female, female name etc. She specifies "she/her" on her email signature, presumably in solidarity with trans people.
She is very bright. A real high achiever. Highly competent and enthusiastic.
The thought of her CV ending up in a "no" pile just because of adding "she/her" as a show of solidarity is just crazy.

@justleggingsandatee what she's saying to a prospective employer when she puts she/her on her CV is that she's not a rational thinker and she's someone who'll go along with a lie for a quiet life. Which may make her the perfect hire for some with some organisations — but not others.

One of the things that many employers are looking for are indications of maturity. The mature decision would be not to put pronouns on your CV. Actively choosing to show solidarity with trans people puts her in the homophobic, misogynistic camp. Transgender ideology isn't sex-based, and seeks to destroy the concept of same-sex relationships. It's anathema to a lot of LGB people and most women. Any employer who is LGB or has LGB staff, or who knows they have key people with GC views in the organisation, or is a feminist, will look at she/her and think 'nah.'

I'd find anyone who introduced themselves like that, instantly going in the Nope pile, sorry.

Just imagine,

"My name's John and I'm a vegetarian"
"My name's Linda and I'm a Pokemon Master"
"My name's Barry and I'm a Yorkshireman"
"My name's Jane and I'm an Aquarius"
"My name's Amy and I'm heterosexual"

Just stick with your name and show interest in the bloody job!

It's hard enough getting a job these days ,Employers just want someone who can do the job and not have to worry about the potential minefiel of getting pronouns etc wrong
And some people who identify as non binary need to realise that the world doesn't revolve around them and their pro nouns

And lesbians in particular.

Honestly if someone introduced themselves in the way your child does, I too would avoid hiring them.

I have a very unisex name and I have never once said that to a potential employer.

There’s an almost entitled arrogance to it.

It’s like introducing yourself to an interviewer saying hello my name is phill mitchell but my title is Dr.
Or hello my name is Sandra but my title is miss not mrs.

Its completely irrelevant in an interview.

Why does an interviewer need to know their pronouns in an interview?
They’re not going to use he or she when talking to the interviewee are they?

I have many colleagues who present as non-binary, some young but most in their 50s (the horror!) but are they actually non-binary? No idea. Should I know or care? It’s a genuine question and I’m being sincere as I always want to learn.

What would make that information important in the work place? Have I fallen into a trap of discriminating through ignorance? I have done that before when I didn’t have experience of something and therefore didn’t realise the consequence of my actions, so it has been helpful to have had someone willing to explain.

Exactly this. I internally judge those who put pronouns as lacking critical thinking skills.