To think that non-binary candidates are more unlikely to be offered a job?

[GinnyPiggie]

I have a non-binary child in their twenties and they are really struggling to secure work.

It might be unfair of me, but I really think that in presenting themselves as non-binary, they are going to struggle to be offered a job with the vast majority of employers. Yes this might be pure discrimination but personally I'd be worried about HR issues and getting sued for saying the wrong thing.

AIBU to think that if you have a range of good candidates, you are going to be reluctant to hire a non-binary candidate because of the potential for issues in the office?

I would expect the scanario as per the meme

Just on a practical level re the pronouns thing. I once mentored a group of 20 young people, with first meeting chaired by an nb individual. They wanted us all to go round introducing ourselves, our pronouns and anything specific we’d like to share about how we’d like our identities accommodated. How on earth did they think that was a valuable use of nearly an hour!? And who the hell is going to be remembering it?

Fortunately I went first with my name and nothing else. So did everyone else and we all cracked on. Nobody with a job to do has time or head space for this nonsense.

I think they probably meant personality and the ability to get along with others ?

No, it not because you are defining someone fitting in by their appearance only.

All tbe examples you gave are about people's appearance.

Fitting into a team isn't about appearance at all. And no one suggested they meant fitting in, based on appearances

To be honest if I go to an interview and say I'm Ellly and I'm from Jamaica or I'm Elly and I have a dog and 3 kids ... I also won't get the job. It's just irrelevant to the job and shouldn't be part of your intro or any other part of the interview. Your child should try to avoid talking about that as it puts the focus on the wrong thing. It's like when women are pregnant but they don't mention that in interviews it just opens the scene for biases ... conscious or not.

Exactly this. People needing to tip toe around for fear of making a genuine mistake is enough to make them a liability

Two candidates looking for their first job (so with no prior experience to differentiate). The only difference is one is going on about being NB, the other isn't.

One has potential to be an HR nightmare the other hasn't. Who would you employ?

In the space of an hour and a quarter I have received 30 likes for my first post on this thread. I've never had anything like that before!
Edit: I fully expected it to be deleted (and it probably will now if a transactivist reads this)

I’d want to say ‘Hello They do you have … book in?’ What on earth is the point of that badge, who bloody cares I just want to know if that book is here.

I hate threads like this.

If I was recruiting I would not be discriminating against anyone because they are NB or use gender-neutral pronouns.

I agree with you @BlackShuck3 and would also think they were devoid of the ability to engage in critical thinking or rational analysis, which would also make me less inclined to hire them.

I would guess that there was zero chance in any reputable organisation of them being questioned at interview about why they had an unusual name.

Your child needs to have a prepared response to this.

I would suggest the following.

No mention of pronouns or identity on CV.
No mention of pronouns or identity at interview.

At interview:

Tom: Hello, I'm Tom, nice to meet you.
Interviewer: Hello Tom. That's an unusual name for a woman.
Tom: (smiling) Yes, that's what people always say when I introduce myself. Thank you for inviting me to interview for this role, it looks like a really exciting opportunity. (Change subject.)

If the whole self really must be brought to work and the use of gender neutral pronouns is essential to Tom's wellbeing, Tom should wait until the offer of employment is made and accepted, and then politely say, "I'm really looking forward to starting this job. By the way, would it be possible to refer to me as they? I identify as non binary and prefer not to be called she."

@Twart
..''All that I know are obviously mentally unwell and are solely focused on themselves and are on high alert for any possible perceived offence. This would not be conducive to any sort of friendly working atmosphere.''
^^

Completely my experience.

Especially XY's who identify as XX.

They monopolise, and say ''so and so is transphobic'' - you just know they'd be itching to sue.

When an XY says they are a ''Lesbian'' it causes offence to many XX, who might glance at each other with a knowing look, but this doesn't make them ''transphobic'', they are just thinking ''How can a man who has zero experience of being a woman know what it's like to be a woman?

Especially when the XY says they have 'periods'.

We hired an NB person recently and it wasn't even a factor/issue for us at all but I think you're right that there are a lot of places which would see them as 'difficult', sadly.

Race or looks don’t come into it.
Someone who is all about themselves and their made up identity is obviously going to be a nightmare.

I’ve worked with a whole range of diverse people, the only ones that seem to create issues are those whose identity/religion is their whole personality and their main interest. It’s tedious.

Noah is a male name? He even saw the animals go in 2 by 2, not 3 by 3 so presumably the original Noah didn't believe in nb?

Tell me you’re a woke racist without saying I’m a woke racist.

Why would a black person not fit into a white team? Are they demanding everybody calls them blue when they are clearly black.
No? Thought not.

Stop bringing race into your bat shittery crazy gender ideology arguments. It’s actually genuinely offensive

I don't see how they'd know the person was non binary unless they chose to tell them. On someone's CV it doesn't state gender?
I also don't see how there could be perceived 'issues' from an HR perspective.

Lots of workplaces do have people put pronouns on the email footers and I don't see what difference it makes to whether someone can do the job or not? They certainly couldn't be found to be discriminatory towards a candidate based on gender identification.

Nobody ever asked me during any job interview process what gender I was. I guess it was visually obvious I was female once they saw me.

But I don't think someone is employed or not because they identify as non binary/trans etc.

What @titchy said - when I'm interviewing candidates, I'm interested in their capability to do what is a relatively technical job. If they introduced themselves saying "I'm X, I worked on Y project, which seems to align welll with some of the work you do", I'd take note. If they introduced themselves as non-binary, I'd wonder why they were using that in their first interaction with me.

.

Depends where you apply.
There's probably a better way of phrasing this:

If they need to tick inclusivity/diversity boxes, you're on to a winner.

The opposite of this could also be true though. 'Some' employers see an awkwardness around 'diversity' hires, as many feel they're treading on eggshells. Mis-gender someone, use the wrong pronouns, let someone go because they're under-performing, etc, and suddenly you've got a lawsuit.

I'm relating this comment to sooo many articles on things like feminism. There's a lot of research to suggest that scientific collaborations with women have declined dramatically since the pandemic and the influx/prevalence of feminism because men are 'nervous' of saying/doing the wrong thing. So their solution is simply to avoid all contact with women in the workplace. I'd imagine the same can be said for trans, non-binary, etc etc.

If someone put they were "non binary" when it came to sex I'd assume they were a delusional narcissist because EVERYONE has a sex, even people with a DSD. If everyone put they were "non binary" for their gender I'd think they were an arrogant person who assumed they were special because gender is sex based stereotypes and all humans are non binary when it comes to gender.

You've got this arse-about-face. If I already had a butch woman on a team (as per your example), I'd be even more cautious about hiring anyone who has demonstrated a belief in sexist stereotypes.
So, hire a butch woman? Sure, not an issue.
Hire someone who believes that my butch employee isn't a woman at all because she isn't a stereotype? Not a good fit.

From a practical perspective OP, what experience does your DC currently have?

What jobs have they performed competently before? I'm assuming if they're in their 20s they've had previous paid employment?

Also, why do they feel it necessary to announce their non-binary status? Is it relevant to the type of jobs that they're applying to? I'm struggling to think of a profession where this would need to be announced at the interview stage?