To think people shouldn't have sex with people unless you would both be happy and able to raise children together?

[Jjiillkkf]

Just reading the thread about the mother's of disabled children they have really struggled to cope with and no mention of fathers. Should society stigmatise abandoning families more? Would that not necessarily include discouraging quite so much recreational sex because of the potential outcomes?

Also inspired by other threads by women who alter an otherwise positive dynamic in their new relationship by having sex with their new partner.

Why is sex the be all and end all when it creates so many problems.

Aibu to think it is nothing but love and kindness to tell our sons and daughters to save it for a good person in a mutually loving, stable, permanent relationship?

I do there should be more pressure on men to pay maintenance

What does it mean to be valid though? Used as an argument against abortion being available?

Maybe it was the wrong choice for her. Would she have benefitted from having her choice restricted? In a place where abortion wasn't freely available, would she have had the baby or had to use a backstreet abortionist, or travel overseas?

No easy answers but restricting choice doesn't help.

I've never said anything about restricting abortions.

I've said that abortion should be available.

But I've also said that it's a serious medical procedure and it can cause a lot of trauma to some women.

What I think they should develop is better male contraceptives. So women don't have to go through all the decisions and the potential trauma

Sounds good in theory then you get the next partner complaining 'we have had a child I need money for my child'

With you there! Haven't read the whole thread, I confess.

Sometimes women who've struggled with abortion are held up to say it's wrong. But the freedom to make your own choices has to mean the freedom to make choices that turn out to be the wrong ones.

Fair enough if you're not saying that!

Oh here we go again, yes us single mums only have ourselves to blame for choosing to sleep with feckless men.

Or actually, plenty of us did get married, buy houses, and forge careers before having children.

Well yes. That's how studies work, based on a representative sample. You take a random sample which represents the population at large.

This was 667 women across 21 US states.

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jan/12/abortion-women-do-not-regret-study#:~:text=About%2095%25%20of%20women%20indicated,the%20course%20of%20the%20study.&text=The%20study%20asked%20participants%20if,or%20happiness%20over%20their%20decision.

I don’t think a society where people didn’t have sex until in a permanent relationship would be desirable or practical today.

To the extent that this ever worked, it relied on people getting married young so that they weren’t spending years of their adult life without sex (and men mostly had premarital sex anyway).

I don’t think we want a society where people get married at 18. If you’re looking for a love match, you mostly can’t know if you have found a “love match” at that age and mostly won’t be financially able to provide for a child.

If, say, people are ready for a “permanent relationship” at 25 or often older they have gone years of their adult life without sex, presumably just masturbating (if that’s allowed). Having found their permanent partner they may find that they are sexually incompatible but be under a lot of pressure to stay. It’s unrealistic except for people who aren’t bothered about sex anyway and would just lead to sexually dysfunctional relationships, which tend to breed infidelity and divorce or at least unhappiness.

@Haroldwilson "Sometimes women who've struggled with abortion are held up to say it's wrong."

Obviously I'm not saying this is the case here, but I have to say I have never seen the "women are traumatised by abortion" line used in any other way...

Exactly no guarantees, so shouldn’t people just do what they want when they want in these circumstances?

This.

In my native country you can't skip maintenance. I was surprised how it works in UK.

That isn’t why marriage exists, marriage was created as a tool to control and sell women to other men.

Everyone has the freedom to choose how to conduct themselves. Some choices are better than others.

Why is sex the be all and end all when it creates so many problems.

Are you referring to the disabled children you mention in your post? 🫣

An abortion is 2 tablets, a heavy cramping period & a bucket load of relief. Hardly ruinous or difficult.... unlike the alternative.

A chemically induced miscarriage is likely to be more complicated for people than that. There's something very sinister about that attitude to ending life.

So people who have passed the age of menopause should not be having sex ?

An unwanted pregnancy can occur within marriage anyway. It could be just as much of an issue to get pregnant when, say, you have two children already and can’t afford another or for example one of your children has significant needs than if you are in a “non-permanent” relationship. Are we saying people should stop having sex if they are married but don’t want another child?

Sometimes people just want to buss a nut

@Jjiillkkf"A chemically induced miscarriage is likely to be more complicated for people than that." No it isn't. For the overwhelming majority of people that's exactly how it goes.
"There's something very sinister about that attitude to ending life." And there's nothing sinister about forcing women to carry and give birth to babies that they don't want?

In some parts of the the the the world, some people have 20+ children. Due to cultural, religious & lack of contraception reasons.
When do you think it would be acceptable to say NO to sex ?

Some people have little choice in their life !

I think it’s more a case of have (responsible, safe sex with whoever you want but for ffs, stop having children with someone you’ve only known for 5 minutes.

It's not a 'life'. There is something sinister in not understanding that women who choose to take 2 tablets do not see it as a life. You don't seem to understand that. It's a potential life, not an actual one. The womans life IS the only actual life here we are talking about. Not something that has no nerve receptors or sentience. They don't see it as a life they're ending. And they are entitled to see it that way. The same as someone taking worming medication wants to remove that 'life' from them. I can't think of another analogy at this point in time. But, just because something is technically a 'life' doesn't mean the host doesn't have the right not to see it like that.

Calling abortion and womens health rights 'sinister', on a feminist site - of all places, is abhorrent and disgusting and dehumanising of the woman. This is 2024. Abortion should be no less taboo than a hip replacement. That there are still women who shame their sisters over it, in 2024, shows how far we have still to come.

Nature is a messy process. Isn't it something like a third of fertilised eggs fail to embed or spontaneously miscarry anyway, without anyone knowing about it?

Every child should be a wanted child.

No there isn't.