To think people shouldn't have sex with people unless you would both be happy and able to raise children together?

[Jjiillkkf]

Just reading the thread about the mother's of disabled children they have really struggled to cope with and no mention of fathers. Should society stigmatise abandoning families more? Would that not necessarily include discouraging quite so much recreational sex because of the potential outcomes?

Also inspired by other threads by women who alter an otherwise positive dynamic in their new relationship by having sex with their new partner.

Why is sex the be all and end all when it creates so many problems.

Aibu to think it is nothing but love and kindness to tell our sons and daughters to save it for a good person in a mutually loving, stable, permanent relationship?

😂

Sex isn't only about having children @Jjiillkkf

Or encourage it?

If the man walks away after he made a pregancy because he put all the responsibility of preventing pregnancy on the woman, society should know and there should be stigma

How would this be achieved though? Making men walk around wearing a scarlet letter? Who, other than those immediately affected, would care? “Society”, at least some parts of western society hold a myriad of values, often massively conflicting with each other and there is a hypocrite in everyone. I just don’t think people would care enough

I think that's a little OTT but do perhaps think women who aren't willing to get abortions should consider that kind of approach. I do find it odd when women are in absolutely dire situations to have a baby in, fall pregnant and start threads be that then or years later in their now inevitably shit situation like they had no choice, keeping a pregnancy is a choice in this country.

Lol then I'd be a virgin forever, I'd never be happy to raise a child even with Daddy of the Millennium. Sex is fun and good for the spirit, there are ways to avoid and discontinue pregnancy. If a pregnancy happens and is followed through, both parents should take responsibility and anyone who doesn't is a twat.

I did mean it in a sort of "in an ideal world" way without really believing it would ever be true.

Men spin the narrative that "she trapped me" "she just wants my money" etc etc and it's accepted. It would be nice if the people (men) they were telling these stories to simply said, "did you wear a condom?" Because that would highlight the avoidance of accountability.

I don't think it will ever be the case though. Last time I challenged someone for bragging about never wearing a condom he smirked and told me he would just use a coat hanger on the woman (I wasn't sleeping with him, it was a conversation)

But men don't want to walk away and are desperate to be in their child's lives.

I mean according to all the comments I read in a Instagram post (post was tale of sorrow, told by a man who was now "seeing" his son (after a period of him not being able to be there physically and mentally for the child) all men are desperate to be present in their children live and it's the women who prevent it, so they (the mothers) can get £5 (give or take - mostly take it seems) a week to support their lavish life styles.

The absolute passion in the posts that were correcting any "bitter" woman who suggested that these men probably should still need to financial support the child so the child was clothed, shoed and fed just showed how much the desired to be involved.

(To explain it seemed that there was a lot of doting fathers that believed if they saw their child (at an unstated frequency) they shouldn't need to give any money to the mother.)

People often underestimate how gruelling and how relentless it is to raise children. Add in children with disabilities or additional needs and it becomes a whole new ball-game.

Probably there are times that both parents would like to walk out but society only really accords that option to men. Women are expected to stay and to cope, and the weight of that expectation is a heavy one. Because failing to cope is not only going against societal expectations but also letting your child down. If you (not your male partner) are the one they depend entirely on, then you feel that you are letting them down if you leave in a way that an often already disconnected father is not.

I'm not sure forcing men to stay is necessarily the best option. An already-shit father who didn't want to be there would struggle to deal with the frustration, the lack of recognition and the thanklessness that comes from raising high-needs children, day in, day out, and might become stressed, abusive and possibly violent. Yes, they shouldn't, it's unacceptable and this is very much a man problem, but probably it's best for women and children not to have inadequate men around and just to be able to focus quietly on their own needs.

Instead what we need is much better financial support and respite care for families of children with disabilities and special needs. The burden of having a child with additional needs should be shared by society as a whole, it should not fall so much upon the parents, particularly the mother. Competent, compassionate, professional help would be so much more valuable to a struggling mother than having a useless ex who doesn't want to be there and does the absolute minimum.

I think the issue of feckless and selfish fathers and how this links in with societal expectations is a different one. Even for men who are living with their children's mother, often they manage to opt out to a greater or lesser extent from the burdens and responsibilities of parenthood. It's a spectrum of disconnection for shit fathers - at one end, the dad who's never organised a playdate for his kids and tries to avoid spending time with them at weekends, at the other end, the father who has fucked off, never sees them and does his best to avoid paying anything for them.

I have, and have gifted it to several friends!

No. I'm childfree by choice and managed to remain so throughout 30 years of (presumed) fertility by taking absolutely no chances with contraception. I am not saying accidents can never happen with contraception but I think most are down to an 'it'll be all right' mentality when something has gone slightly wrong, or thinking 'well, it wouldn't be the end of the world if I got pregnant' rather than genuinely being meticulous and abstaining rather than taking a chance.

That is leaving aside the fact that, in the UK, women have a choice to terminate if they do become pregnant accidentally.

True, but you are reducing the chances of them being a loser if you take a long time to get to know them before deciding to have kids. Meeting someone, moving them in, pregnant within 6 months is a total recipe for disaster, even if the child does not have additional needs.

Don’t be silly, OP. Contraception and termination are freely available. No one needs to see sex as synonymous with having a child.

Should we all wear promise rings too?

Contraception fails and are abortions particularly something we would hope our children get the joyful experience of in their lifetimes?

A friend had 2 children with her partner, everything was good for them. Around 4 years after having her second, she had a third, severally disabled, complex needs. Then a few years later she had her fourth, severely autistic non verbal. That’s when he cleared off.

I think people should have sex if they want to m. But use the most effective contraception possible and take the MAP quickly if necessary.

I think a lot of people on this thread are underestimating the impact of abortion on a woman’s mental health.
Yes I was only 17 and yes I had all the counselling I could have but it has had a massive impact.

1. Too many women set the bar far too low for men. And it’s women that bear the risks of pregnancy and child rearing.
2. There is a magical piece of paper that legally joins two people, making it harder for one to completely run away from responsibilities. It’s not perfect by a long shot, and I’d like to see more enforcement of consequences for avoidance. But it’s more than a lot of women seem to think they’re worth. Why?

So he really wanted to have the 4th child?

OK 2 people have sex the women gets pregnant, they are made to stay together because she is pregnant. Sounds great in a normal working relationship

So they split and he wants 50/50 and she will go sure fine?

Or is responsibility 'give me money and go away I don't want you as a parent or if i allow it dictated on my terms'

So if it is not the above what is the actual answer?

It's a somewhat ridiculous leap to suggest that anyone wants their child to experience an abortion. The vast majority of adults are able to use contraception correctly and avoid unwanted pregnancies.

Do you think those who wish to remain childfree should never have sex? One of the benefits of being childfree is the free time to have plenty of sex...

The goady threads are starting earlier every day.

Just because I don't want children doesn't mean I don't deserve intimacy.

Several posts each week from mothers along the lines of 'I'm currently pregnant with dc2. I have a 2 year old. My husband works 100 hours a week and does no housework or childcare. Things haven't been great since dc1 was born. We've been arguing lots'. How the fuck can you even get in the mood to have sex with such arseholes!

And 'we' are ttc, why?

I agree op. More recreational sex has led to more abortion and a good deal more unwanted babies too. The legalisation of abortion has unexpectedly brought about way more recreational sex and way way more unwanted pregnancies than was anticipated. This system isn’t working and we need to rethink our attitudes to heterosexual sex. Afaic homosexuality is perfectly fine because that doesn’t lead to unwanted babies, nor does it lead to horrible family dynamics where the mother and father hate each other. We’re failing children.