Women are encouraged to have vaginal births due to…

[Undkonm]

1. cost
2. because women are not treated like men in terms of pain management

I have read (and also strongly believe) that the nhs encourages vaginal births to save money. A consultant has recently come forward to say exactly this. It is appalling and women are still falling for the narrative that vaginal birth is the only real way to give birth.

Don’t get me wrong, I know there are huge risks with all medical intervention such a c section. But I know so many people who have ended up with an emergency c section and it’s been awful for them. In contrast, those I know (including myself) who elected a c section by choice had a peaceful and largely predictable birth.

This toxic narrative that birth is only birth if you give birth vaginally is another abuse of women. I am glad I had the insight and confidence to push for what was best for me. I know other women who desperately wanted a c section but were pushed around and didn’t get to have it elected.

When will this end? I should add that I also strongly believe women who want vaginal births should be absolutely supported but it should be an active choice to do that, not the expected ‘norm.’

Do others agree? Do you have other thoughts on this? To go one step further I think the abuse of women continues when the baby arrives with huge pressure to breast feed. Just leave women alone to make decisions that are right for THEM.

Really? I know several people who opted for planned c sections and I’m now amongst those women myself. The NHS is too shambolic and I live too far from private maternity hospital to contemplate anything else. I did toy with a private midwife abd home birth but that seemed a bit high risk

NHS guidelines are generally based on cost effectiveness models, carefully weighing costs (not just financial costs, but also risk of adverse outcomes, recovery time etc) against benefits. A huge amount of emphasis is given to aiming for equality for all. I highly doubt the guidance is based on women’s pain being considered less important than men’s pain.

We really weren't made or designed to give birth. This isn't how evolution works. In any biological process there is an amount of 'wastage' and humans giving birth have a very high level of wastage indeed. This means without intervention lots of women and babies would die and this would be 'nature's way'.

Theoretically at some point, the genes that are best suited to giving birth will be the ones that prevail, but we have been intervening with birth for centuries and we just haven't become physically 'better' at giving birth as a species and instead have got worse. Those with unfavourable traits for birth aren't dying in childbirth but are surviving and so are their children. It isn't surprising therefore that these unfavourable trait begins to become more prevelant and women need more and more intervention to give birth safely. This perhaps isn't ideal but what is the alternative?

We don't normally have " Obgyns" in the UK. Are you in a different country ( where's there's more money to be made from C-sections)?

The older women are, the less straightforward a vaginal birth is likely to be, too, and the more likely it is, that there'll be issues afterwards such as incontinence. We have women giving birth later in life, and having first children later in life, but I don't think the benefits of c-sections in these circumstances are promoted enough.

It’s weird to hear CSections being described with such horror considering advised pain relief is usually paracetamol and ibruprofen 😒

I had a EMCS after 40hrs labouring.

2nd DC I asked for a section at booking in, there was no querying or quibbling at all.

The ELC was lovely, every different to an EMCS and recovery was fine after. I also EBF both times.

If I was guaranteed a safe, damage free, 8hr and under vaginal then I would have gone for it for the experience.

Overall, women need choice and support both in hosp and at home.

I've had an emergency c section and a planned one due to issue, it makes complete sense for mothers to be encouraged to have natural births! They are a major operation and they of course cost more money than natural way! That's not a bad thing! Doctors wouldn't chose to do a major operation on anyone if they didn't need to!
This birth isn't a birth if c section isn't from doctors! It's from random memebers of society that are obviously talking rubbish ! I'm not sure why u included that!

When I was pregnant in 1969 and 1972 there was no choice at all.Elective caesarean sections were only done for clear medical reasons, e.g. placenta preavia. If you asked for a section with no medical reason your sanity was questioned.
As a trained nurse and midwife I knew I was going to run into problems giving birth, I am 4ft 10ins with narrow pelvis. During my first labour my DS1's position changed to transverse as his head never engaged and I developed a Bandle's Ring, which is a very dangerous form of obstructed labour when the uterus moulds itself around the babying his shape can be clearly seen.I ended up with a very emergency caesarean section under GA and my son and I almost died, he is now almost 55 and has issues caused by his horrible birth
During my second pregnancy I was terrified and actually asked for an elective section, this was denied because I was assured this complication would not occur again.Well, haha guess what my DS2's head got stuck in my narrow pelvis during labour, my uterus almost ruptured and another very emergency section under GA.His head had to eased out with forceps as it was well and truly stuck causing a huge scratch down one side of his face.No ill effects to him he is now a father and grandfather but without the caesarean it would be a different story.
I requested and got the tubal tie because I could not trust the doctors again.All c sections were done under GA and the long vertical scar was used then so they were no picnic, but all of this would have been avoided if elective sections by maternal request had been allowed
I am very envious of you lucky people who ask for and get elective sections.I was pregnant too early!

No it was just shorthand I CBA to write Consultant Obstetrician and Gynaecologist

I never said they made money I said their job was dependent on it which is true as doing C sections is a major part of the job. More C sections more consultants needed.

That's because vaginal delivery is safer than major abdominal surgery unless there is a very good reason - feotal distress, exhaustion of the mother, impeded labour - to do it.
Breastfeeding ought to be better supported. I breastfed my children because the faff of bottle feeding was too much to contemplate (I suspect I am minorly compulsive, though I have fought this all my life - bottle feeding would have been a nightmare). Breastfeeding was monumentally easier and I decided I would do it - so I did. Only a minority of mothers cannot breastfeed - otherwise none of us would be here. But it should be a choice.

The problem is that birth is a crapshoot. You could have a lovely natural birth in the pool, leave hospital pain-free a few hours later.
Or your baby could get stuck, be deprived of oxygen resulting in CP (happened to a friend of mine). You could get a 4th-degree tear that leads to years of faecal incontinence.

Same with sections. My planned was lovely, recovery was smooth, I was back driving after 10 days, no issues. But I could have got an infection, I could have had complications on the operating table.

Some of it is out of our control and that's the difficult thing, so I think it's important we can assert control where possible and that women can choose how to give birth in a fully informed way.

For most women, a vaginal birth is the safest option and the recovery time is quicker. There are also benefits for the newborn. Abdominal surgery unless it’s absolutely necessary? No way.

I've had four c sections, which was the best thing for me as I had a hard time with my first birth that resulted in an emergency section. It's not really the easy option though. My recoveries were not terrible, though they did get harder with each subsequent birth and my insides I was told were on the verge of being damaged due to scar tissue. I was advised to have that as scar tissue could attach to my bowel and bladder. However, I was glad to not attempt to go through a vaginal delivery again and the births themselves were calm and straightforward.

• advised to be sterilised.

I've had C-Section and vaginal. In my experience vaginal birth was so much easier. Yes it is painful for a few hours but the recovery was much easier. I would prefer the pain of labour before baby comes to the pain and limited movement I experienced after C-Section when I needed to be caring for my baby.
I know not everyone has the same experience but most people do deliver babies vaginally without complications.

Also my SIL is friends with an NHS surgeon, and she said that all NHS surgeon's with any complicating / non ideal factor (larger baby, older maternal age, back-to-back baby position etc), all opted for elective c's. I appreciate that's just the ones this surgeon knew, but still.

I always wonder about the stats on home births having a lower percentage of interventions, as no one with any risk factors (ie most likely to have interactions) is allowed a home birth, so hospital births are always going to have a higher percentage of interventions.

If I’d attempted a home birth I’d be dead. I haemorrhaged and lost 3.5 litres in the space of about 10 minutes. No ambulance could have saved me. I was only in hospital because I’d tested positive for group B strep, otherwise I could have been cleared for home birth.

I had a vaginal birth with DC1 and an ELCS with DC2.

I think it is terrible that women are pushed in a certain direction beyond reasons that are medically necessary. I saw it second time around and actively pushed back. My DC2 was a large baby, the consultant recommended a c-section which I agreed to and then I proceeded to be heavily badgered by doctors and midwives on the ward to consider an induction. I was perfectly at peace with a section and just said no. However I know I wouldn’t have had this confidence first time around and probably would have succumbed to an induction (which likely would have been a rather unpleasant experience with a 10lb baby!).

I had my kids in the naughties and consultants (think obstetricians collectively, might have even been their professional institution) got together to advise C-Sections were recommended because complications are fewer, apparently.

I've not heard of the change in position @Undkonm

BTW I have no exp of c-sections. I'm told by those who've had both, they are equally traumatic, lol!

I should add that I also strongly believe women who want vaginal births should be absolutely supported but it should be an active choice to do that, not the expected ‘norm.’

of course vaginal birth should be seen as the norm. It is the norm. Bodies recover much better from a normal physiological function than from major surgery.

I mean… in principle a vaginal birth is the default. That’s how humans give birth.

I think there’s a conversation to be had around the huge increase in inductions (about a third of births?) and the consequences of these.

So many women have absolutely appalling experiences and of my friends almost universally end up in an instrumental birth or emergency c-section anyway. I cannot see that this is the best option for women!

Why do you think most women can breadtfeed or "we wouldn't be here"?!

I had two births Both vaginal. Had an episiotomy with first and second had a minor tear. Quick recovery, no muscles cut so no apron 20+ years on.

Well, it's not really surprising that some surgeons favour the surgical option. Surgery is what they do and know.

I had a planned c-section with permission from my consultant. He told me at the time (over a decade ago) - we don't advertise this but a planned section is at least as safe as a vaginal delivery. The unspoken implication was that on some occasions it was actually safer.

Who had a problem with my section? Midwives. They were vile to me. They clearly thought I was 'too posh to push' because I didn't share my surgical history with them. They don't like being overruled by (male) consultants. It all felt hugely politicised.

So, YANBU.

Any animals that are worth to humans do have c scetions.
Horses? Hell yes. A LOT.
Dogs? Yup.
Cats? Yeah, even cats.

Other animals just die.
Like women did not so long ago.
We have babies with silly big heads for our frame and are more likely to die than average bunny or goat.
But yeah, childbirth does end in death in nature.
Do you advocate for that?