Women are encouraged to have vaginal births due to…

[Undkonm]

1. cost
2. because women are not treated like men in terms of pain management

I have read (and also strongly believe) that the nhs encourages vaginal births to save money. A consultant has recently come forward to say exactly this. It is appalling and women are still falling for the narrative that vaginal birth is the only real way to give birth.

Don’t get me wrong, I know there are huge risks with all medical intervention such a c section. But I know so many people who have ended up with an emergency c section and it’s been awful for them. In contrast, those I know (including myself) who elected a c section by choice had a peaceful and largely predictable birth.

This toxic narrative that birth is only birth if you give birth vaginally is another abuse of women. I am glad I had the insight and confidence to push for what was best for me. I know other women who desperately wanted a c section but were pushed around and didn’t get to have it elected.

When will this end? I should add that I also strongly believe women who want vaginal births should be absolutely supported but it should be an active choice to do that, not the expected ‘norm.’

Do others agree? Do you have other thoughts on this? To go one step further I think the abuse of women continues when the baby arrives with huge pressure to breast feed. Just leave women alone to make decisions that are right for THEM.

Sections are higher cost, with longer recovery times and greater risk of infection.

However I do think there is an issue with unnecessary interventions, sweeps that are not needed.

Having had a textbook waterbirth with my first, I was so surprised at the fight I had to put up to have a homebirth second time round. Mg midwife was so against it for reasons she couldn’t explain but she spent the second half of my pregnancy trying to make me birth elsewhere. The matron saw sense and supported us, a straightforward birth followed!

I think the crux of the issue is women not being listened to. Whatever birth we want, we’re never truly listened to.

I was glad to have 5 vaginal births for all the usual reasons, but I would never see it as failure not to have one as the aim is simply to have a live child. I think the NHS has a pretty good balance based on medical need. The most dangerous 24 hours of most people's lives is that during which they are born.

DS1: Induced due to "baby will be 11+ lbs (sidenote - he was not). 55 hour back to back labour, failed epidural / 3.25 hours pushing until I blacked out / forceps / episiotomy / 3rd degree perianal tear / 1.75 litre haemorrhage / thrombosed piles birth / 5 days in hospital post birth on a full and noisy post natal ward / 8 weeks of antibiotics due to retained products / infected episiotomy / mastitis x 3 / long term thrombosed piles / gastro intestinal disorder due to the amount of medication i had to take.

DS2: planned c section, prepped at 8.15, born at 8.50, shower and first poo by 5pm, home by 15:00 the following day, back to normal within 4 weeks.

It was a complete no brainer for me to have an ELCS with my second. I didn't want to be induced with my first, but I was railroaded.

Personally I think the whole ‘this is best for baby/child’ has to stop. We actually don’t know what’s ‘best’ all the time with the uncertainty of birth so I feel that pushing a certain ideal at the point of birth or feeding isn’t helpful, we should have ALL the information and option to make a choice without shame or guilt but know that it’s still an unknown and we can only do what we can with the tools we are given or made available to us. Saying that it’s the ‘truth’ that your children will suffer years down the line because we made the best choice we could at the time isn’t helpful to anyone whatsoever. You may not want to shame mums or perpetuate guilt, but with that attitude, you will be. No child is inferior to yours just because you made different choices on birthing and feeding.

I would not take an unnatural option, with needles going into my spine area ...I had fought this fight and it was hard but beautiful also. Brings so many things into proper perspective when you fight for what life brings you to. Not a wimp here I am afraid

"I have read"

"a consultant said"

Oh yes, nothing quite like a factual conversation when it comes to the safety and well being of expectant mothers and their offspring

Personally I think we could do with more support for moms and young families to allow women the space to prepare for a vaginal birth and breastfeeding, along with more classes and support to teach the skills, but sadly a lot of us find ourselves having to rush back to work or manage several kids and a newborn without family support etc so I totally get the draw to having a c-section/formula feeding. There’s less guesswork. But equally, we need to stop pretending like it’s the same thing as the alternative because when it comes to health, development and recovery outcomes, the truth is that it just isn’t the same.

@Yellow23 Oh please not more 'classes' being pushed onto already intelligent, forward thinking women being delivered by the obnoxious NCT leader types who think they're the only ones who have ever parted with a child. I'll go with my own intuition, it's served me and my son very well so far and I haven't attended a single preaching session in 13 years.

I had great vaginal delivery, honestly loved it. Would do it all again no problem, no pain relief, no gas and air. Just hypnobirthing. Don’t remember any pain, just really strong intense feelings. Truly felt super human afterwards.

but I’d have pushed for an elective c section over any induction. Personally if my body wasn’t ready to deliver then I wasn’t going to risk spending 5 days on a ward getting nowhere other than exhausted and then have an Emergency csec.

so I believe in empowering women to primarily go into vaginal delivery without fear, to feel informed and confident but to also know what they need and be supported in getting that. So if it’s the drugs and epidural then crack right on.
and while I do believe vaginal is best, a C-section is a wonderful back up for those who need it, whatever the reasons.

This whole debate is very odd to me

Giving birth to a baby vaginally and breastfeeding it is the biological norm

It's not some kind of equal choice to have a C section it's a medical intervention that should be provided when necessary.

Did you change your username just to be able to make that moronic statement?

I appreciate I may be a statistical outlier but after all that and 2 years breastfeeding, baby has eczema and allergies. I was given 2 weeks of antibiotics after birth, I forget why, standard with one of the interventions I think.

Instead of advocating for more c-sections, advocate for better support for vaginal birth. Practice should be evidence based and mother and child focused. Far too much things are done for the convenience of medical staff and the hospital. Women who are given good support are more likely to have a successful vaginal birth which is in her best interest and the best interest of the child.

start with women laboring in shared wards or in other uncomfortable spaces. Even women with highly medicalized situations deserve a calm, private environment for the duration of labor. Then we can talk about birthing positions that are convenient for doctors not women. Or even the idea that women wait to push until a staff member is ready, they must simply be ready.

I recovered physically a lot quicker than she did.

Ive had both first emergency section and second VBAC, it didn't take me longer and both had different draw backs - in fact I was probably in more pain after a VBAC than the prior c section initially. That though may have been that I had far better pain relief with the first birth. I certainly be hard pressed to say which was easier or more difficult afterwards

This. Absolutely.

For me, I would choose a vaginal birth every time over a C-Section. Sorry but c-sections are major surgery, and absolutely a healthy mum and baby with no complications should be encouraged to at least try a vaginal birth. Recovery is so quick, compared to a c-section. Your body knows what to do and is designed for baby to come out that way

A consultant ObGyn whose job is dependent on surgical births advocates for more surgical births. Surprise surprise

I had an elective cesarean with my first child and a vaginal birth with my second. I totally disagree that the vaginal birth is less traumatic. After my section I was walking about after a couple of days and able to do lots with my baby. After my vaginal birth, I was bedridden for over a week, I had been cut before foreceps were used and then I tore. I was bruised and in pain and couldn't get comfortable whether lying down, sitting or standing. My recovery took much longer.

Also sex was always painful to some extent as there was lots of scar tissue. In later years (after menopause), I suffered a prolapse which needed surgery under general anaesthetic. I have since gone on to have two further prolapse surgeries. These could probably all have been avoided if I had pushed to have a second section.

YABU.

Imagine the outcry if the default was a planned caesarean, and women had to push for vaginal births? People would be up in arms saying they didn’t want unnecessary surgery, scarring, risk of pain, blood clots, unable to drive for weeks, unable to lift baby, needing stronger painkillers preventing breastfeeding , struggling to manage with older kids at home etc.

And how do vaginal births save money, compared to planned sections? VBs are unpredictable, can last days, can result in emergency sections, tears, additional medic input (ventouse, forceps etc), not to mention risk to the baby. Yes the recovery may be shorter, but the women are occupying labour ward beds for potentially much longer. Planned sections can have a time slot, all done within 30 minutes, on to the next one. Also less risk of litigation.

OP I think you’re making this up off the top of your head. When I worked in obstetrics I spoke to many women about their options, and not once did cost come into it.

We were made to give birth vaginally so it should be the default choice . After two easy vaginal births I had to have a c section and I was gutted . The recovery was much longer and I still have the scar and “pouch” whereas I forgot the pain of labour as soon as my babies were born. It should however be an informed choice and support in maternity hospitals should be improved.

I had two c sections and can tell you that C sections come with a whole set of risks so vaginal births are generally less risky. So
medically it makes sense to encourage vaginal
births when it is safe to do so

Of course you are right. Much of what the NHS does is decided based on costs.
However, this has been admitted now. They've stopped referring to natural childbirth as the only 'normal' childbirth.

‘Women feel like failures if they haven’t had a “normal” birth’: how the NCT has shaped childbirth in the UK | Childbirth | The Guardian

I'm a midwife and I think this post nails it.
Every midwife I know dreams of a service where women can make informed choices about every aspect of their antenatal, birth, and postnatal experience. But in reality there are so many conflicting pressures and so many holes in the funding and the staffing that we end up pushing women into decisions that fit the system instead of what is truly best for them as an individual.
At a population level, vaginal birth is better for women, in that it carries a lower likelihood of complications. But that is very different from saying it is necessarily best for this or that woman as an individual. It is also cheaper, most of the time.

C section birth is nothing to do with pain management.Most women have some sort of pain relief for birthing vaginally including an epidural
A healthy vaginal birth ( and most are ) is the gold standard for both mothers snd baby.Why submit them to unnecessary surgery.

"And how do vaginal births save money, compared to planned sections? VBs are unpredictable, can last days, can result in emergency sections, tears, additional medic input (ventouse, forceps etc), not to mention risk to the baby. Yes the recovery may be shorter, but the women are occupying labour ward beds for potentially much longer. Planned sections can have a time slot, all done within 30 minutes, on to the next one. Also less risk of litigation."

Vaginal births are handled by midwives unless there are complications. C sections are surgeries requiring highly paid surgeons and operating theatres. Seems clear to me that surgery is more expensive.