Husband shouted at my daughters

[Unknown987]

Bit of back story. I have two daughters from a previous marriage, 12 and 10. One with my current husband.
My husband has a very good relationship with my older two. He's the softer playful adult in the family whereas I'm more the disciplinarian. He is actively involved in all parts of their lives (discipline is left to me as my expectations are higher than his I guess). He has been in their lives 5 years.
our 2.8 year old has been having major tantrums recently - she has meltdowns over something she does not want to do (normally end of day when she is tired). This one was triggered by bath time. In these tantrums she is hitting crying screaming breaking anything around her. I would welcome any advice around this too?
Last night was a particularly bad tantrum. Both husband and I are fed up 10 mins in and we are laughing out of dispair while she is just going crazy on floor. My older two find it funny and are always laughing when she has these tantrums (we have spoken to them before to leave and go upstairs away from baby when this happens as it is not helpful).
Older two were upstairs laughing throughout the tantrum even though I had told them to go in their room.
Baby daughter scratched husbands face in the tantrum (really hard) almost drew blood so while I took her off him and restrained her the girls were on the landing and he shouting at them and pushed the 10 year old towards the stairs by putting hand on shoulder (she said forcefully I didn't see) and he shouted at both older girls 'I don't ever want to see you f*ing laughing again when baby has a melt down.'
Girls went down and I told him to calm down as we are at our wits end with baby's behaviour and I believe he took it out on the older two.
i am so disappointed with him and have told him never to swear or touch my girls again. I don't know how to be now. I explained to my girls that it is out of order but he was angry at the baby not them. This has never happened before as normally it is me that tells the girls off and is seen as the 'mean' disciplinarian.
But Aibu to be angry at him?

He lost control, and we've all done that at times when you're being pushed to your absolute limits. I wouldn't hold it against him but I would expect it not to happen again. He needs to walk away if he's reaching his limits.

But you really shouldn't be laughing at your toddler, even if in despair. If she's safe where she is, walk away or turn your back, watch from a safe distance and only engage with her again when she's calm. Your reaction is giving her meltdowns a purpose - stop reacting and she'll learn that she gets nothing from it.

Yeah I gift give (generally cook a fave meal) it's because I want to show I am serious about acknowledging my mistake and putting in effort to rectify by doing something that they like/love to show I take note and appreciate them.

In the red flag love bomb, I find the gift give coincides with brushing it under the carpet and a mentality of "I got you a gift, now shut up and never mention it again and pretend it never happened until next time"

Oh come on! He knew he'd done something wrong and was working out his own way of apologising. According to OP this was a one-off and not part of any cycle of behaviour. Repeted shouting followed by gift giving, yes a red flag. This genuine apology? No.

@Unknown987 Cut and file the 2 yr old's nails so she can't scratch anyone while in a tantrum.

Sounds like her nails are very long if they caused such a mark on your husband's face.

Sounds like he was angry at the scratching, and definitely took it out on your older daughters, who must also really hate the noise and disruption caused by the tantrums.

Their 'laughing' isn't because they find it funny- they are probably wishing their household was calm and peaceful, they could well be annoyed at the new child disrupting the family life {as they might see it} - so their laughing is done to annoy the adults. {?}

A 2 yr old's behaviour shouldn't hold sway over a whole household like this, especially not if she's actually damaging things.

OP if you Google UK parenting classes / video courses / books you'll find loads of options, from free to pricy.

We wouldn't be allowed to get behind the wheel of a car without first of all having an experienced professional to guide us, and then a test to make sure we know what we're doing! Yet with babies ...

Seems so strange to me that parents are simply 'handed' a baby, or walk into someone else's family set up and are basically told to get on with it!

Your husband has had to do both.

It's a skill the same as driving is, and needs new knowledge and mindset and practise to develop and grow.

Not surprising so many just have to make it up as they go along. Not surprising there are crises and traumas.

They we’re laughing at her because you two were laughing. A bit contradicting don’t you think

So you say you're the disciplinarian but I don't think you are because your older girls continue to stand and laugh and exacerbate a stressful situation with the toddler. What do you do to discipline them when they continue to not do what they are told? Yeah your husband shouldn't have shouted but the toddler has just drew blood and the other 2 are standing there laughing. He knows he can't shout at the toddler but if the girls weren't there stirring it up then they wouldn't have got shouted at either. If you're the disciplinarian and he's not allowed to what did you do to remove them? Yes he should apologise but I would also re-enforce that they will be in future be properly disciplined from now on if they continue to stand and laugh at the toddler.

No her older sister was the one that says she wasn't pushed

good point

Or, just maybe, he's reflected on his actions and is sorry??

I really don't think a box of Milk Tray constitutes love bombing.

Sorry OP but this seems like you’ve asked your older 2 children numerous times to stay out of the way and not encourage your toddlers behaviour. They do not listen and finally your toddlers father has had enough and finally disciplined the older 2.

You've blown this up out of all proportion.
Its over, done, finished - and should be forgotten.
We all do stupid things when we're angry, so stop making a mountain of this and put it behind you. Its time to start again, no apologising, no blaming, just start behaving like adults.

I think no laughing from anyone during the tantrums, staying calm, and trying find a distraction for little one when she’s kicking off. Try and understand what is the cause of the tantrum, is it for attention, is she frustrated or overwhelmed by something ? Is it at the same time each day? 2.8 years is the worse time for toddler tantrums IMO but as my DC got a bit older it was loads better, hang in there it’s gets easier. Just remember her communication skills are limited and that age and she's frustrated as she can’t tell us exactly that she’s feeling. Prob frustrates her more when everyone is laughing at her!

They had been told to go upstairs to their rooms stop aggravating the situation but they were on the landing laughing. But you are right the adults don't come out of this well either, do as I say, not as I do. Probably it was amusing initially when the older children laughed but it would wear thin quickly. I don't suppose the parents are still laughing (as in amusement) much any more either if these tantrums are becoming a regular thing.

Swearing at them whether they were his children or not is definitely not on and deserves a conversation regardless.

With regards to why it matters is because depending on which scenario actually happened it would make me rethink how I saw him. If he spoke more sternly to them than normal but not aggressive and guided them away from the situation where you’re both stressed then I’d think it was okay, where as if he shouted at them and physically pushed them away then I’d have to have a serious talk with him about how inappropriate it was to react in such a way and I would not tolerate that response/reaction again. But that’s me and what I’d do.

Having read through your posts, I take it that losing his tempered and swearing at people is not something your husband has ever done before. It should definitely never happen again, otherwise his apology is meaningless.

The main issue seems to be the toddler's tantrums and how you all (including your daughters) deal with it. I think that by the time it reaches a tantrum, it's too late and the situation is no longer is anyone's control, which is likely even more upsetting for your youngest and makes the tantrum last and increase in intensity.

I imagine is must be difficult to do, but I think it's important to figure out what causes it in the first place. Is it something medical or developmental? Are the baths just too late in the evening? Is the toddler overstimulated from the day already? Does she need to decompress before being able to handle a bath? Should it just be one of you bathing her at the time?

There are hundreds of reasons why this is happening, but I would make this my main focal point.

You’re minimising

your ten year old has told you that her step dad forcefully pushed her.

you heard him shout and swear, so you know he lost his temper but you’re now inclined to believe he didn’t actually push her. Stand up for your DD and parent your toddler properly

I think pp suggestions about sitting down apologisng to girls but coming up with a solid plan to deal with tantrums is a must here.
We've all been there tantrums going on a you see red when your at the end of your tether. So step back . In future tag team the 2.5 yr old ao one of you steps out and vice versa so your not both about to cracked at the same time. Boundries- earlier bed/ bath time and wind down routine and just accept tantrums are a thing and you have to let them pass. Put baby in safe spot to vent if she gets physical and go in a cuddle when she's let most of it out.

For the older two. There's alot going on at those ages for them. Hormones, baby sibling now taking most of your 2 time and adjustments are still ongoing. You need to consider where they are in all of this. Yes you can send them up but make sure you go up to at least say goodnight etc even if baby is still kicking off. Tag team.

You need to sit them down discuss how it all got to much and he needs to apologise for swearing and pushing. Come up with new plan or ask them to go upstairs when u settle baby and you will go in and see them once she's settled etc. Set the routine. But don't tell dh off for asking girls to go up but how he did.

Swearing was not his finest hour but getting him not to touch "your children" was not your finest hour either. Toddlers can be stressful - and we can become irritated when stressed.

Sort bath time to fix the issue and share disciplinary role otherwise the older kids will play you off each other later and push boundaries as the line in the sand changes depending on who the audience is

one off behaviour in 5 year is not a bad parent.

He is actually a new parent - dealing with his own childs tantrums for the first time - unlike OP who is on her third round. There is not a parent in the world who has not yelled/ spoken sharply to their child/ren when frustrated with behaviours - anyone who says otherwise is a liar

OP is obviosuly the perfect parent - so unless we are about to be drip fed whole load of other incidences -this is a - no one laughs at tantrums moment for all concerned and move on.

Stressful situations get to everyone and if it really is a one off and came with a proper apology this morning then it’s time to move on and come up with a better plan for all of you going forward.

do you send your other two away every time the little one has a tantrum? Do you and your husband always deal with them together? Because honestly it sounds like the little one gets masses of attention for these situations and that isn’t going to help.

one adult dealing with tantrum, with as little attention as possible, and the other doing something fun with the other two would be far better, even if you have to in and out every 5 minutes so neither of you loses your cool with the tantrum.

Why are you sending your older DD’s to their rooms when your toddler has a tantrum?

Why are they being punished for you having another kid who’s behaviour you can’t control with another man who’s not their Dad?

I’m not surprised the older girls laugh, probably as a stress release, when they’re having to put up with a screaming banshee in the house who creates chaos and also hits them.

You need to remove the toddler to a safe area like hers or your bedroom, put her down somewhere soft and sit nearby without interacting to let her calm down.

This is a massive red flag that the stepfather has shown this behaviour to your daughters while under stress (probably hasn’t shown it before as not under this type of stress). That shows he sees them as someone who he can take his stress out on not as children to be protected. I’d make it clear to him that any further incident will mean he’s out. It’s your job to protect ALL your DC OP.

i haven't spoken to my husband since last night and creating this post - but before I could suggest anything he himself went out early this morning to go gym and brought back apology chocolates and spoke to the older two and apologised.

Apologising should have happened last night instead of everyone having to remain stressed about it overnight, it certainly should have been priortised instead of the gym and genuine apologies do no need chocolates.

Do not teach your dd cheap chocolates, or any gift, from a partner are an acceptable replacement for genuine remorse, accepting complete responsibility and taking positive action to ensure that never happens again.

This was a one off. The whole family need to learn from it, and I hope the family meeting is a good one for everybody. A lot needs to change in the way everyone responds here.

I'm glad the DH has apologised. While it wasn't a good thing he did the girls don't seem damaged by it.

And as for the PP suggesting that the chocolate is love bombing and part of a cycle of abuse, that sort of leap could get you from here to Australia.

I'll be honest, I find this thread "inconsistent"..

You titled the thread "DH shouted at my daughters".

Then changed it to "raised his voice" because you say he speaks so quietly as a default.

Now it's back to a "shouting episode".

You said your daughter claimed he pushed her forcefully by the shoulder but that you didn't see it.

Then changed it to he definitely didn't push her forcefully, because the other daughter said he didn't.
Isn't that something you'd establish before posting on a forum with potentially 100s of replies? Wouldn't it be a rather significant thing to establish - given it takes this scenario into violence against a female child - to call a spade a spade.

That's presuming you established that after you started the thread.
If you established it before you started the thread why would you write that your DD claimed he pushed her forcefully but that you didn't see it ...and not mention anything about her sister saying he didn't (thus she must be lying/it didn't happen).

It's very hard to give advice when the main facts are being flip flopped on.

All I know is it sounds like an adult man shouted at your daughters and pushed one by the shoulder because he was stressed out by his child's tantrum and because she'd scraped him.
They were laughing at the situation...well, kids will do things like that. Maybe they should have been talked to about it before. Even if they had been talked to before now, and didn't stop doing it ..... An adult man shouting at them and pushing one is hardly a constructive, healthy way of dealing with it. Kids giggling and being silly doesn't mean they deserve abuse.

Let's face it, he did it cause he lost his temper. They shouldn't be being treated by their step Dad like that in their home. Not exactly a good male role model for their lives.