Page 7 | To tell Children's Services it is a malicious referal from school

UndertheCedartree · 2024-09-20T20:48:27+00:00

So DD's school have today told me they are referring us to Children's Services. Ever since I made a complaint they have been trying to off roll her. They are not putting in proper support for DD leaving her struggling and then not wanting to go in the next day. Apparently this is all my fault. I feel this is just another tactic for me to be so fed up with the school I pull her out.

Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 21/09/2024 00:35

ReadingInTheRain583 · 20/09/2024 23:02

Childrens services covers a wide range of things. In my county, it's also the department that deals with SEND, EHCPs, funding etc.

Are you sure you're getting worked up about the right thing here?

Show quote history

Hopefully I'm worrying about nothing.

OP posts:

Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 21/09/2024 00:37

CrossUniStudent · 20/09/2024 23:04

The LA are having you on there op. Do the request as outlined in the Ipsea link. don't worry about ss, in my experience they won't touch send kids with a barge pole lest they be forced to spend their budgets!

Yes, good point.

OP posts:

Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 21/09/2024 00:38

YOYOK · 20/09/2024 23:05

This can include early support.
please try not to panic and not to jump to your own defence and say it is malicious. Go with the facts and be as neutral as possible.
This may well be a gateway to more help.

The school don’t sound as though they can meet your daughter’s needs to be honest…

Show quote history

They don't do they? But they insist they can!

OP posts:

Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 21/09/2024 00:39

BellesAndGraces · 20/09/2024 23:05

How far are you with the EHCP? Have you requested that the LA make an assessment? You don’t need the school’s support to do that. I’m not sure I understand how things have got this far without progressing an EHCP

Yes, I have made the request. It was turned down. I am appealing.

OP posts:

HollyKnight · 21/09/2024 00:41

I don't think they mean for you to stay there all day with your daughter. I think they just want you to be there at the start to reassure her. As in if she's very upset in the morning she can come down to see you - her safe person - calm down, then go back to class. They obviously think some mornings its too much for her to be just dropped off and left.

I would try the 15-minute thing to show them that it doesn't work. Then they will have to come up with a different plan. But right now, as far as they are concerned, they are trying to help your daughter by testing this plan but you are refusing.

tolerable · 21/09/2024 00:41

Tread carefully."local authority" ncludes school,every "service" associated. ..whatchu think the could do..and what actual happens is worlds apart

Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 21/09/2024 00:41

ReadingSoManyThreads · 20/09/2024 23:07

Oh so because you work in a school, you think you know how all schools act? Right ok.

Former teacher here, and parent, now home educating mother, and I can assure you that some schools absolutely DO report maliciously. If you think that ALL schools follow procedures, then you are extremely naïve.

As for 'oust'-ing children, yes, off-rolling may be illegal, but that sure as hell doesn't stop some schools from doing it. Just ask the hundreds, if not thousands of SEN mums who were left forced to home-educate after their children were illegally off-rolled.

I roll my eyes hard at posters who start with "I work in a school", as if they know it all 🙄

Show quote history

Yes, I agree. As I said we know 3 DC who were off rolled last year. And DD's school are making their best attempts.

OP posts:

Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 21/09/2024 00:45

Titsonboard · 20/09/2024 23:09

Children services don’t necessarily mean a child protection social worker though. I process referrals within part of children services and most of the referrals, but not all, come from schools some parents self refer when they feel they need more support that the school is providing. We have a range of services that we might offer to the family and Social work is only one option, we also can offer additional educational support or help liaising between school and parents, we can request additional support from the school nurse system or Health visitor system in younger children. We can offer group work for the young person or parenting classes or resources for the parents, we can signpost to other specialist agencies. We run groups through the school holidays.
Sadly some parents do refuse to engage with the support we can offer but you shouldn’t dismiss it out of hand just because the school has instigated it.
Oh and just because I process referrals and know what happens in my Local authority I don’t think I know it all and I have experienced the other side as a parent with a child with ADHD.

Edited

The thing is we already have a comprehensive range professionals involved. We really don't need another. As they say...too many cooks spoil the broth.

OP posts:

offyoujollywelltrot · 21/09/2024 00:46

The truth of the matter is, schools do not have the capacity or the funding to give every neurodivergent child the help they need. It's a harsh reality but that's what it is. Is it fair? No.

The referral to social services is a good thing, because it's likely they will be able to refer your daughter to the services she needs, assuming they're not overwhelmed.

Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 21/09/2024 00:49

ThisBlueCrab · 20/09/2024 23:23

I said off role or exclude if you fancy reading the post and yes I am fully aware of what it is.

But you are being g very belligerent in what you are choosing to acknowledge and seem intent on not listening to everyone, me included, who have said a referral to children's services is often one to do with early intervention and aviut trying to get the support you are asking for.

If your actual here is anything like how you arr interacting with the school. I am not in the least surprised that the head is hostile

Show quote history

So therefore you are aware there is no red tape to off rolling. We aren't discussing exclusion so that is irrelevant.

And I can quite imagine you fitting in with the Head with how rude you are.

OP posts:

Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 21/09/2024 00:50

Merryoldgoat · 20/09/2024 23:24

@UndertheCedartree

Have you applied for an EHCNA yourself?

Yes.

OP posts:

NoOffButton · 21/09/2024 00:51

Honestly OP, I think you’re missing the point.

Your DD has ASD, she is not coping in mainstream, the school is not able to manage the situation. It sounds like she really needs to be in special school or very least have a designated LSA.

A mainstream class has up to 30 children often with just one class teacher and a TA if they’re lucky. They are not going to be able to cope with a child with significant ASD too.

The school may also think you need support from SS….My friend whose child has ASD actually referred herself and it was the best thing she ever did as it triggered a whole network of support.

I think you need to stop focussing on the ‘off rolling’ and get some perspective.

NoOffButton · 21/09/2024 00:52

Oh and she will do better in the right environment for her. Speak to your LA.

Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 21/09/2024 00:52

Grumpycashier · 20/09/2024 23:25

Do you know you don't need the school to request ehcp? You can do it yourself? It's a long hard slog and you need to know your child's rights, and often ehcps are gatekept to en extent among some local authorities because obviously it comes out of their pot but fight for your child's needs and embrace any professional that comes your was as an ally, because they will help you get what your child needs. Social services aren't the enemy, they should be your first point of call for advice and self referral, they have a wealth of info and can refer on to occupational therapy, who also have valuable expertise. Good luck, don't be disheartened, embrace any help that comes your way

Yes, I have already applied. I've got lots of help and support but yes, I take your point.

OP posts:

Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 21/09/2024 00:54

PickAChew · 20/09/2024 23:26

And this reflects exactly how much the actual SEN system lets down parents who aren't excellent communicators (or, as can so often be the case, have some additional needs of their own.) so much of the time, it relies on parents being able to advocate effectively and sometimes aggressively for their children just to get their basic legal right to a "suitable" education met.

Show quote history

Thank you for saying that. I have ASD and struggle so much with all of this.

OP posts:

Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 21/09/2024 00:56

OhIdoliketobebesidetheseaside32 · 20/09/2024 23:29

I would tread really carefully here OP.

You can't trust the LA either! You will get told all sorts of crap to waste time. Go to IPSEA and SOS:SEN. Get some help starting the EHC Needs Assessment process. You don't need the school or LA to back you on this. You can make a parental request.

But, having been in a similar position to you, the best thing you can do is to stop trying to get the school on side. They are never going to see your point of view or give the help you're asking for, even with an EHCP because they don't believe you and they don't want to help.

I honestly would pull my child from that school. You're flogging a dead horse.

I would but I'm just not in a position to Home Educate.

OP posts:

F1gT3a · 21/09/2024 01:01

Matronic6 · 20/09/2024 22:31

If her needs are this severe, how has she got all the way to year 8 without an EHCP?

Show quote history

This is really common with ND girls. They mask and get overlooked all though primary then fall apart in secondary. The process can take forever too. My dd got her EHCP at 17!!!! She was off rolled. I wonder if it’s Early Help op. We were referred to that at one point by other services and it was really helpful.

NiftyKoala · 21/09/2024 01:04

UndertheCedartree · 20/09/2024 23:09

They said that DD's issues are nothing to do with autism and are down to me because I won't agree to a plan where I have to sit at school all day. Obviously going against the opinion of all the professionals.

I have this attitude to the school because of the way they have treated my DD. She's been discriminated against, no individual support plan, no goals or review meetings, suspended for being in ASD meltdown and I could go on. She has been badly effected by the lack of support. And ever since I made a complaint the Head has been hostile to me.

Show quote history

I just want to say I have been in a situation with a school similar they didn't call social service which to be honest surprised me. It was a small religious school and my daughter had a severe health issue that to the eye she looked fine.

The school offered so much support that they never backed up. Against my better judgment I let her finish the year. They refused to promote her but where I live I was still able to enroll her in her proper grade. Well guess what great grades and much more importantly my child is happy for the first time in years. I know how hard it can be and I hope you get what you need for her. You clearly are fighting for her and that is so important.

Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 21/09/2024 01:06

Merryoldgoat · 20/09/2024 23:29

100% agree.

I posted yesterday about how my child has been transformed in 2 weeks after starting specialist independent secondary. He’s got access to a mainstream syllabus in an environment designed for him but the cost is eye watering (for the LA).

Show quote history

Wow that sounds amazing! Good luck to your DS.

OP posts:

Avertmyeyes · 21/09/2024 01:11

UndertheCedartree · 20/09/2024 22:19

So they don't have to spend money on providing her with the support she needs and/or don't have to admit to disability discrimination.

I know 3 other parents with ASD DC in the same year (Y8) at different schools. None of them are in school anymore. It is very common to be off rolled.

Show quote history

Try find a school that can meet her needs. Council website or google and see if a fee paying school in your area. Pursue it & get them to name in ehcp … at least try. Perhaps. Get better support a?
Its Education at Council you need get assessment from Education.
If they wont
Go their website and make a complaint (that child needs assessment )

Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 21/09/2024 01:19

HollyKnight · 21/09/2024 00:41

I don't think they mean for you to stay there all day with your daughter. I think they just want you to be there at the start to reassure her. As in if she's very upset in the morning she can come down to see you - her safe person - calm down, then go back to class. They obviously think some mornings its too much for her to be just dropped off and left.

I would try the 15-minute thing to show them that it doesn't work. Then they will have to come up with a different plan. But right now, as far as they are concerned, they are trying to help your daughter by testing this plan but you are refusing.

They want me to be available all day as she can have a meltdown at any part of the day if she is told something is going to happen and then they change it.

On her first day back her Learning Mentor planned a preparation day with DD. But someone else interfered and changed the plan with devastating consequences for DD. On the second day she was obviously even more distressed. I didn't leave due to that. Sat there for 2 hours. Eventually spoke to LA who told me to take her home as it was damaging for DD. She shouldn't have to have her distress on show to all and sundry. So no, I'm not agreeing to a plan that is damaging. And she should have a plan enabling her to get an education. The LA have been very clear it is an inappropriate plan.

OP posts:

Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 21/09/2024 01:24

Barney16 · 20/09/2024 23:34

Is it social services child protector early help? Early help can assist with all manner of things including an EHCP or suggesting services that can support for children without a diagnosis.

Unfortunately, the EH here is really bad.

OP posts:

Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 21/09/2024 01:29

Turnups · 20/09/2024 23:35

Whether or not you tell Social Services you think the referral is malicious will make not the slightest difference. If what was said in the referral meets their threshold for investigation they will investigate fully anyway, and draw their own conclusions, and if it doesn’t they won’t. If you feel you want to tell them, do.

You say they want you to take your child away, but I am very sceptical that the school would make a referral to CS for that reason. They would look very stupid if CS investigated and concluded that there was no basis at all to whatever they have alleged. In any case, tbh I don’t understand why you would want to keep your child in a school in which you have no trust, and which you say can’t or won’t meet your child's needs.

They've already made themselves look very stupid in front of other professionals- I don't think they care, tbh.

Well. what do I do with her? Do we just remove all the disabled DC from school and absolve them of any responsibility?

OP posts:

NumberNotRecognised · 21/09/2024 01:34

NoOffButton · 21/09/2024 00:51

Honestly OP, I think you’re missing the point.

Your DD has ASD, she is not coping in mainstream, the school is not able to manage the situation. It sounds like she really needs to be in special school or very least have a designated LSA.

A mainstream class has up to 30 children often with just one class teacher and a TA if they’re lucky. They are not going to be able to cope with a child with significant ASD too.

The school may also think you need support from SS….My friend whose child has ASD actually referred herself and it was the best thing she ever did as it triggered a whole network of support.

I think you need to stop focussing on the ‘off rolling’ and get some perspective.

To get a special school placement, or a LSA, you need an EHCP in the vast majority of cases (in my area anyway). The OP’s DD’s school are not helping her get one so she can get access to support but are trying to off load her instead which is disgusting and not uncommon. It takes a long time to go through the EHCP process, you’re looking at a minimum of 5 months but that’s only if the LA keep to timescales which they don’t IME.

Having experienced similar, I can well believe a malicious referral to SS OP. Makes me wonder if your DD is at the same ‘outstanding’ secondary school as my DC was! Sorry you are experiencing it too.

We never had a referral to SS but I wouldn’t have put it past the school. They tried every dirty trick in the book to try to piss me off enough so I’d remove my DC. Head took it personally that I held him to account for their failure of duty to my DC. He even sent me an email once saying I was rude to blank him (those exact words) because I didn’t acknowledge him at parents evening after I was told my DC would not be entered for any GCSEs and I had walked out of a meeting where he had asked why he had to have my child in his school when they obviously didn’t want to learn and he had a waiting list of kids who did!

DC has ASD and a learning disability but it took 3 attempts and until Yr10 to get an EHCP.

I wouldn’t be too concerned about the SS referral, just go with it. It is utter nonsense to say you are denying her an education if you are trying to get here there despite her distress. In fact, even with this going on, I’d email the Head putting in a formal complaint that they are denying her access to an education by not putting support and reasonable adjustments in place (you sitting there is not THEM supporting her and is totally inappropriate). Escalate to Board of Governors or Academy Trust.

How on earth can they suspend her for meltdowns - do you have that reason on the suspension letters? Add that into the complaint as well as the meltdowns were obviously due to her being unsupported.

I’d also say that you will not be returning her to school until a meeting laying out a support program and strategies is arranged as she’s not safe in school if she’s self harming.

When you get the SS conclusion, make sure you put in another formal complaint about the malicious referral, all the way to the Department of Education.

I honestly boil with anger even now years later when I think of how much I let my DC’s school get away with so as not to cause a fuss and be labelled a problem parent! They bank on that.

Original poster

UndertheCedartree · 21/09/2024 01:34

mossylog · 20/09/2024 23:38

She really doesn't sound like she's coping well at the school. Would some kind of home education be a possibility? If she's regularly this distressed going in, what good is she getting out of it?

Well, exactly she isn't, which is why the school needs to put some support into place. I have also requested section 19 provision as she can't manage school full time. This could potentially be some kind of home education.

OP posts: