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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To tell Children's Services it is a malicious referal from school

648 replies

UndertheCedartree · 20/09/2024 21:48

So DD's school have today told me they are referring us to Children's Services. Ever since I made a complaint they have been trying to off roll her. They are not putting in proper support for DD leaving her struggling and then not wanting to go in the next day. Apparently this is all my fault. I feel this is just another tactic for me to be so fed up with the school I pull her out.

OP posts:
Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 21/09/2024 12:22

Morph22010 · 21/09/2024 07:36

But your suggestion about taking holiday from work is unworkable, I have a child with asd, they can’t access any holiday clubs that nt children can access as they can’t manage them. We both work and also have some support from my mum to cover some of the hols, but it’s really difficult to cover the actual holidays, I’m not sure what we’d do if we also had to take weeks on end off to sit in my child’s school just in case there was an issue, I’d have to give up work, thst is probably why lots of parents with Sen children do end up giving up work and then they get a bashing for that too.

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I'm probably going to have to give up work because it's not sustainable at this point as I've already had a whole year of this.

OP posts:
Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 21/09/2024 12:26

Barleycat · 21/09/2024 07:38

You sound a bit paranoid and defensive. You need to work with the school not against them to get your daughter the support she needs. At least by contacting SS they are being proactive in that and hopefully it will lead to an ehcp and more support for you, your daughter and the school.

The school needs to work with me and the other professionals not against us! Are we all really wrong?

They are not being proactive - school is not supporting an EHCP. They are trying to off roll my DD.

OP posts:
CrossUniStudent · 21/09/2024 12:26

Op skip the AP with school conversation and TELL the LA to sort. Don't let them fob you back to school.

www.ipsea.org.uk/asking-the-local-authority-to-arrange-alternative-education-model-letter-22

If they won't sort it look into a pre action letter for failure to put suitable education in place sossen.org.uk/whats-judicial-review/

Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 21/09/2024 12:27

TheFireflies · 21/09/2024 07:38

I am a social worker, I remember receiving a referral like this once from a school. I worked with the family and understood from the child and parents what was going on, and ultimately my assessment was critical of services but not the family. It helped to get more support put in and for things to be done in different ways.

so it may not be a bad thing, although I can understand why you feel anxious and aggrieved.

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Thank you for the reassurance.

OP posts:
Caramellie3 · 21/09/2024 12:33

@UndertheCedartree have you tried sendiass for support at meetings and advice? Sunshine support can help with the ehcp. I would also contact gp and mental health team for self harm. My child was younger but I removed from one school to another to get the support needed. Also was out of education for a year before a suitable school was found. There is plenty of loop holes in the system unfortunately. I also felt bullied by school staff at times. It is a fight to get what is needed.

Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 21/09/2024 12:34

Freshersfluforyou · 21/09/2024 07:44

I suspect school would also be happy for mum to leave provided she leaves her daughter in school. I would bet the issue is that op wants to take her daughter with her because her daughter is very distressed, and the school feel that the extreme distress is something that would be less evident if the mum left. Because the school think daughter is putting on a show because shes learnt it gets her taken home.
So school are trying to create a situation where no matter what, the daughter does not get taken home.

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Have you actually read the thread? The school sends my DD home! Either through phoning me to get her or suspending her. I have never taken DD home aside from that. The only reason the plan is that I sit in reception all day is because the previous plan was for me to take her home (rather than sit in reception) and I pointed out that was an illegal exclusion.

OP posts:
Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 21/09/2024 12:35

F1gT3a · 21/09/2024 07:48

🤔Autism isn’t putting on a show.

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I know the ignorance is crazy!

OP posts:
HFJ · 21/09/2024 12:37

UndertheCedartree · 21/09/2024 11:59

She wants to be able to go to school and access her education like any other child. But she is so scared and gets so overwhelmed. She's getting to a point that she just can't face it anymore.

The meltdowns have stayed pretty static. They involve her shutting down, silently crying, shaking, head on desk or slumped with hair over her face. With me (and sometimes learning mentor) where she feels safe she will pull her hair out or punch herself in the face.

She has one close friend at school but they moved her class so she wasn't with her anymore. She has other friends as she is generally well liked but she struggles in a group of people.

So, at the end of last year (as suggested by the Ed Psych) the school put in place that myself and her Learning mentor would exchange an email everyday as to what had happened at home/school so we could find patterns. It is one of the positives that has been happening. At the meeting the Head accused me of sending too many emails and one criticism being that I email the learning mentor every day and expect an email from her! Apparently it is unreasonable of me to expect something to happen which the school put into place! It's so bizarre. It's like she sees something that is working and just wants to destroy it. The last meeting we had she removed a reasonable adjustment that was really helping DD. It's so shocking you end up questioning yourself - is this really happening? I feel like I'm going mad.

Firstly DD needs a transition back into school so she can feel safe and be able to deal with the demands of lessons. Then some support with self regulation. Positive talk in front of her, positive relationships so she feels safe. Social stories for some situations. Being able to leave class and go somewhere calming when overwhelmed and the same at lunch. Information provided so I can prepare DD for her day/make her visual timetable accurate. Consistency. Following through on agreements.

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I really feel for your daughter, and for you. It is distressing for a parent to see or know about their child self harming.

Hope you don’t mind further questions and really getting into the weeds of this. Did the school find a pattern? I’m thinking not so much demands of lessons (likely related to woolly instructions and explanations, which autistic people really get frustrated with) but the narrative that occurs in your daughter’s mind. This is the key, I believe, to unlocking the pattern of meltdowns.

Avertmyeyes · 21/09/2024 12:38

Turnups · 21/09/2024 12:09

But it is a one-sided situation. Parents can do what they like with their child at home, including allowing outrageous behaviour, and schools have no say in the matter. The same is not true the other way round - parents complain at the drop of a hat if they don’t like what the school does.

Parents only have their own little darlings to worry about at home. Schools have to be concerned about how the behaviour of said little darling is affecting the education of the other 29 children in the class.

In any case, management of behaviour problems is always far better if parents and school work together and parents are involved in the school's approach.

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Boooo

Petitchat · 21/09/2024 12:40

BusyMum47 · 21/09/2024 11:47

⬆️ !

I work in a school & would be amazed if this is the case - it will be VERY closely scrutinised & is not a decision taken lightly by any school. There must be a lot more to this story.

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You're right. There will be a lot more to this story. The school will be scheming all sorts against OP to get rid.
This is what a lot of schools do, I have personal experience of these tactics.
It's all very nasty.

Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 21/09/2024 12:40

Nomdejeur · 21/09/2024 07:44

Ok, what do you think would help? A 1:1 TA? Or being in a smaller class with shared TA? Maybe a time out card so she can take 10 mins to regulate her emotions. Then the school may have Elsa support or zones and regulations sessions, or school counsellor? What do they offer towards mental health?
Does she need help understanding her ASD and why she thinks differently and reacts differently. Have you thought about getting help via Camhs?
I know a school where a parent sits in every lesson with her child, it is the only way he stays calm. It’s obviously not ideal but it’s working for them.

I've already replied to this but I agree with the Ed Psych's recommendations. And yes already been referred to CAMHS.

I can't even take my DD to the wellbeing room let alone sit in a lesson! Funnily enough, I did read about that happening in a document on best practice. Is this a mainstream state secondary school?

OP posts:
HFJ · 21/09/2024 12:42

I often think schools aren’t very autism friendly places. They’re noisy, the corridors can be a bun fight, the extroverts dominate lessons, educators prefer students to discover rather than be taught, lunchtime is a social nightmare etc.

If I had money and power I would create my own school for autistic girls.

Turnups · 21/09/2024 12:45

Avertmyeyes · 21/09/2024 12:38

Boooo

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Eh?

Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 21/09/2024 12:45

rockingbird · 21/09/2024 07:51

Personally I don't think it's a bad thing having SS intervene. The school is clearly not able to cope and this has already been highlighted. That fact that there is no ehc plan in place means there no legal binding agreement of what support needs to be provided in order for her to attend school. SS may agree with you on this and kick off other support streams to enable you to obtain this (be warned at this point the school may say they can't meet her needs). If that's the case a specialist provision may be an option with an ehc plan. You need to work with them not against them, there's 30+ other yr8 children in that class that need to learn to not just your child - if the teachers are spending their time calming your child down it's not unreasonable for them to call in other support-SS. As @TheFireflies has said in her post, this could be the assistance you need right now!

As I've already said myself and the other professionals are working very well together but unfortunately we can't do it without the school playing ball.

Teachers aren't spending any time calming my DD. There is plenty of support but the school will not cooperate with them, unfortunately.

OP posts:
Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 21/09/2024 12:48

Freshersfluforyou · 21/09/2024 07:51

No, but for whatever reason school don't support this childs diagnosis (i wonder if it was obtained privately) and some teenagers absolutely WILL go to extreme measures if they are phone /screen addicted and just want to be at home, in their bedroom looking at screens.

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It was the NHS and school have never disputed her diagnosis. I mean even the Head isn't stupid enough to claim she can diagnosis autism!!

My DD is not a teenager, nor is she screen addicted or wanting to be at home. She wants to be at school with her friends.

OP posts:
Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 21/09/2024 12:49

H12345 · 21/09/2024 07:59

Sorry but I don’t believe it’s ridiculous and would give anything a go if my child was that distressed.

I work full time and would use my holiday allowance it’s just how I would make it work and lucky to have that as an option now my children at secondary school. It will only be for a short period of time and if it works and my child become settled and happy that longer terms means I can do my job more efficiently as won’t be picking child up from school all the time.

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You give something a go knowing how distressed it makes your DC, knowing it is against all professional advice, knowing that it will damage them? Why?

OP posts:
UmberFinch · 21/09/2024 12:53

There’s obviously a lot more to this story than you are telling us. No you should not say the school are being ‘malicious’ or get further involved. Let children’s services work with you and your child, as it might be in your best interest.

Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 21/09/2024 12:55

Taytoface · 21/09/2024 08:05

I am so sorry you are going through this. It is also interesting to see how little non SEN parents understand.

As a comparison, my daughter (autism &ADHD) had a crisis at school at the end of year 3. Caused by lots of changes in school and class that were not communicated well. She had weeks of being very dysregulated, culminating in her being excluded multiple times over a few weeks.

The school worked with us to devise a plan to get her back in and support her to stay there. This included her having access to a sensory room at all times, having her favourite TA with her 1 to 1 at all times, her starting school before everyone else, using social stories to explain what was required of her, having a clear plan in place for the day that did not change, if plans had to change a careful approach was used to communicate. They also had a very specific plan to de escalate in the early stages of a meltdown that all staff were trained in following.

They supported us in getting an EHCP which we now have. Our daughter is now doing really well, all because the school worked with us and put the right support in place.

Yes, my DD thrived in Primary too as the SENCo took the lead and knew what she was doing. The Head here appears to like to micro-manage. So she and the deputy head are making the plans. I don't understand it.

OP posts:
Avertmyeyes · 21/09/2024 12:59

Also can’t ever “win” against school or SW. they are considered the expert despite having no training in your child’s specific disability.

DS complex needs. Advice from Behavioral Paed over many years included;

  1. maintain neutral expression in challenging situation. DS may become more emotional if sees your expression & reacts more.
  2. put both hands palms facing DS in “stop” position & Ask DS “take one step back” when he is too close or goes to hug (and covertly bite you)

School secretary/reception staff made a “dossier” for SW when I complained school wasn’t meeting his needs & safeguarding complaint as he walked away without eyeglasses when on school outing & was “lost” .

  • mum doesn’t smile when collects ( only collect from reception if there’s a problem so I am “neutral”)
  • mum Does not hug and says step back! (don’t want to get full strength bitten on arm or breast )
  • mum had bruise on face and did not explain (no one asked, why would I tell some school staff why I had a small scab & bruise. Which was household accident trying to repair curtain rod and it all fell on my face - eyeglasses bruised bridge of nose. I have delicate skin on face for those who know EDS )

The school receptionist claims got me noted w SW as bad parent despite doing exactly as instructed by a PhD Behavioral Paed.
No amount of explaining could remove receptionist report from “my file”

Acting in whose “best interests” ?

Petitchat · 21/09/2024 13:18

Turnups · 21/09/2024 12:09

But it is a one-sided situation. Parents can do what they like with their child at home, including allowing outrageous behaviour, and schools have no say in the matter. The same is not true the other way round - parents complain at the drop of a hat if they don’t like what the school does.

Parents only have their own little darlings to worry about at home. Schools have to be concerned about how the behaviour of said little darling is affecting the education of the other 29 children in the class.

In any case, management of behaviour problems is always far better if parents and school work together and parents are involved in the school's approach.

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always far better if parents and school work together

But this school won't do that.....

Where does that leave OP and her DD?

And why would parents allow "outrageous behaviour" at home.
Do you mean autistic behaviour?
Is that what YOU call it when a disabled child is having a meltdown? "Outrageous behaviour" and "little darlings"

Glad I don't know you in RL, you sound so uncaring of disabled children.

Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 21/09/2024 13:20

Spottymushroom · 21/09/2024 08:09

Op this sounds very distressing for all involved.

can I ask what they are suspending your child for? Is it refusing to attend lessons? Swearing and being violent?

do you have a family support worker? They can often help so much with school as they are there to ‘fight the battles’ and are not intimidated by the school.

could the school be asking you to go to reception all day so they can tell the LA that they have tried everything? The school obviously isn’t the right place for your daughter but specialist schools are so over subscribed and difficult to get into. They could be doing all of this to manage move her to a more specialist school. The more evidence they have for them not being able to meet her needs and trying everything the more chance they have to manage move her to a specialist school.

Try to embrace the children’s services. The more people involved the more chance you have of your child’s needs being met.

It's for 'failing to follow instructions' so yes could be she is so distressed she's unable to go into a lesson or she doesn't want to let me leave school as she feels unsafe.

What department does a family support worker come from? We don't have one.

The trouble is they are now saying they can meet DD's needs. They were saying they couldn't but the LA pointed out that they hadn't put a graduated approach plan in place (as they are supposed to) so haven't 'tried everything.' In fact in their eyes have 'tried nothing.' Basically the school has just had a scatter gun/reactive approach. There's been no proper targeted support and no reviews etc.

Without an EHCP she can't get specialist support and the school has no evidence for an EHCP.

OP posts:
dizzydizzydizzy · 21/09/2024 13:23

DC2's preschool reported me to social services twice. Once they told SS DC was covered in bruises but it was not the case.

Another time they told SS DC was not properly dressed. In my view DC was warm and comfortable, but the choice of clothing was a little unconventional. I would have preferred DC to be dressed in a more conventional style but 3yo DC2 obviously knew better and it wasn't the hill I wanted to die on.

Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 21/09/2024 13:26

AlwaysSometimesRarelyNever · 21/09/2024 08:19

Op. I feel your frustration and the school seems shit. I know schools can do no wrong in mumsnet land.

You are going to have to work with SS in a calm, evidenced based way. With as much written evidence as possible. I would suggest you spend a day and do a written timeline detailing all actions to date.

I would say this school is not right for your DD. It is 💩. But, you need to make sure she has the right setting to go to before she leaves. It needs to be on your and your child's interest. She needs an EHCP. I know you know that.

Edited

Thank you for your advice. A timeline is a good idea.

It's funny but I only have the paper trail and evidence for a timeline because of all the (unreasonable according to Head) emails I have sent. If I'd not got things in writing or chased anything up I'd not be able to show anything. It just made me realise why she tried to undermine me sending emails now.

OP posts:
Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 21/09/2024 13:31

MrsWombat · 21/09/2024 08:20

I work in a primary school, and we do similar with parents sitting in reception with their child, but it's the very first part of a graduated plan to get them back into some sort of learning. So 15 minutes playing card games with mum, 15 mins playing card games with mum & classmate/TA, 15 minutes playing card games with TA/classmate in library with mum in reception. Expecting you to sit in reception with her for 6 hours is nuts! An hour doing maths worksheets with her would be more sensible. However, I can see if this is their solution and you've not "complied" with it, how it could escalate to an SS referral. Just be honest with social services.

Yes, your example makes sense. But this isn't it. It's just if at any point DD can't cope rather than the school providing support she is to be brought to sit with me. In a busy, noisy reception in front of everyone where I have no resources (like colouring for example.) to calm her.

OP posts:
Avertmyeyes · 21/09/2024 13:31

UndertheCedartree · 21/09/2024 13:26

Thank you for your advice. A timeline is a good idea.

It's funny but I only have the paper trail and evidence for a timeline because of all the (unreasonable according to Head) emails I have sent. If I'd not got things in writing or chased anything up I'd not be able to show anything. It just made me realise why she tried to undermine me sending emails now.

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When you find out your child has SEN … the last thing you think you will be doing to help your child is

  1. keeping meticulous records
  2. timelines
  3. Making complaints to make sure LEA and SW and school are following the rules
  4. defending everything you say and do
  5. losing your privacy
  6. not trusting/questioning the motives of the people who are supposed to be helping

Being a good record keeper, letter writer, advocate and complainer should NOT be required.