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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To feel uneasy about this school mum relationship…

141 replies

PinkyPhonk · 19/09/2024 18:06

DD really struggles to make friends, but I’m so delighted that she has now made a friend and her friend is amazing. I’ve had a few playdates, and I feel the Mum has latched on to me a bit.

Thing is, we share very different political views : and a few things have made me really squirm. E.g. we met a friend of mine when we were out, and there was a comment about : what country is she from (in a tone that made me feel uncomfortable. I just shut it down with ‘the UK’.

And I just feel pushed into things before I can say no. A trip away is being planned, and would involve me paying accommodation for all my family on something I otherwise wouldn’t have done. DH is staunchly Labour, and will really create an atmosphere if he comes and any ReformUK type views are expressed. I’m dreading taking him along, but feel weirdly guilty about saying maybe it’s best if he doesn’t come.

I don’t quite ‘get’ what is going on?? I accept that people are different, and think I can stand my ground - but I’m feeling pushed into things, and almost scared of saying/doing the wrong thing??

OP posts:
Harry12345 · 20/09/2024 08:39

God I must come across as racist then, if someone looks and sounds like they’re from another country I ask where they’re from, because I’m genuinely interested and love learning about other cultures and thought it was nice showing an interest. Infact a woman from Africa in my work said she appreciated the interest and wuestions and no one usually bothers

pinkgrevillea · 20/09/2024 08:47

I'd push back on racist comments. You can do it in a way that isn't confrontational or unpleasant, just challenge them gently and then they either get a sulk on or if they have some self awareness realise that they are being racist. I find acting like you simply don't understand what they are saying is useful too - so if she says where is your friend from, you say, the UK or the town she's from with an attitude of slight puzzlement. Put it back on her, every time.

pinkgrevillea · 20/09/2024 08:49

ImustLearn2Cook · 19/09/2024 22:48

I am from Australia. If I were to go to visit or live in England and someone asked me where I was from because of my accent, would that be considered racist? Or would it simply be viewed as showing an interest?

Some people are just simply interested in other parts of the world and having a conversation with someone from another country can broaden our knowledge of different cultures. I don’t see this as racism.

I got chatting with a couple from England who were visiting Australia and they asked me where I was from. It turned out that they thought my accent was not an Australian accent. Which I found interesting. However, some people might interpret that as racism. I don’t interpret it that way.

I mistook a Canadian accent for an American accent once. Doesn’t make me an ignorant racist. Just I’m human, I don’t know everything and I make mistakes just like everyone else.

Being so quick to judge people, jumping to conclusions and policing people is leading us into being divisive, intolerant, prone to making false accusations, anger, contempt and hatred. That can’t be good for us.

Unless, this person showed a bit more evidence of being racist, how about giving her the benefit of the doubt?

If you are white Australian then no, it's not racist. It's why Sam Kerr calling the taxi driver a white c* was not racism. Impolite, perhaps, but not racist. If you google racism you'll see why.

ViciousCurrentBun · 20/09/2024 09:17

I’m very obviously mixed race and have never ever been bothered by the where are you from comment. What normally ensues is people then enthusing about my Fathers country of origins cuisine and asking if I can cook it, when I reply yes then you can tell they hope they may get invited to dinner. I’m assuming you’re white? Please don’t be offended on my behalf it’s not necessary. White guilt is really not helping anyone. My Fathers parents had every right to be pissed off at the British, I am not them. I’m married to a white guy his ancestors were very wealthy, lived in colonies as civil servants on his Mothers side. No idea what our ancestors would have thought about our alliance and I do not care.

PinkyPhonk · 20/09/2024 09:45

@ViciousCurrentBun

I think it was the way it was said, together with other comments that have been made.

Yes, it can be asked positively : in a way to find out more about a person.

Or it can be asked in a negative way. It was a comment directed towards the whole family : where are they from then/also towards the children. The ‘oh right’ when I said the UK. I just got bad vibes. It was asked just as they left having said hello to me. It was that I felt terrible that my friend/her children might have heard as they walked away.

OP posts:
Octopies · 20/09/2024 11:00

I wouldn't go on holiday with her if she makes you feel uncomfortable. It's perfectly possible to be civil to someone who has different views to you. You're not responsible for another person's thoughts. Just because you spend time with someone who thinks differently, it doesn't automatically make you the same as them. When my Mum makes a racist remark, I'll let her know why I think she's wrong and then change the subject. I wouldn't want to spend an extended period of time (like a holiday) with her, but I'll still maintain a basic relationship with her as she's the only Mum I have.

ReggaetonLente · 20/09/2024 14:28

redskydarknight · 20/09/2024 07:38

Funny how you missed the bit where you, as a Brit living in the UK, get asked all the time about where you are from.

I'm guessing this is because it doesn't happen? Why not, if people are only making conversation?

There is nothing wrong in being British. What is wrong is the undertone of "you don't belong here" to someone based on their skin colour.

Well no, because I have a clear London accent. But when I’ve lived in countries where I’ve spoken the language with a foreign accent, in a country where there were extremely few people of my skin colour, people have asked where I’m originally from. And I didn’t feel like I was being told I didn’t belong there.

Of course there’s nothing wrong with being British - its the idea that someone will be offended by not being considered so without question that is, to me, really silly. But happy to think differently.

redskydarknight · 20/09/2024 14:35

ReggaetonLente · 20/09/2024 14:28

Well no, because I have a clear London accent. But when I’ve lived in countries where I’ve spoken the language with a foreign accent, in a country where there were extremely few people of my skin colour, people have asked where I’m originally from. And I didn’t feel like I was being told I didn’t belong there.

Of course there’s nothing wrong with being British - its the idea that someone will be offended by not being considered so without question that is, to me, really silly. But happy to think differently.

So exactly the point I was making. You are identified as "belonging" by others because you have a white skin and a London accent.

If you had the same London accent and a non-white skin, I can assure you that lots of people would be asking where you came from.

You can't see the problem in this? Or why it's racist?

LoveHearts69 · 20/09/2024 16:43

Some of the institutionalised racism on here is awful.

If you look at someone and ask where they’re from purely based on the fact that they’re not white and nothing to do with them having an accent or anything then yes that’s racist. It shows the biggest thing you’ve taken upon yourself to notice about that person is the colour of their skin. That would also suggest that you aren’t used to being in the company of anyone who isn’t white and that you feel everyone who isn’t likely to be from the U.K. it’s 2024 FGS.

Bestyearever2024 · 20/09/2024 17:05

You can't see the problem in this? Or why it's racist?

I think THIS is the issue

Racists often / sometimes (I don't know which) will deny racism and try to explain it away ....the old line "I have black friends" 🤣🤣🤣

But however much you choose to lie to yourself and us, we all see you being racist

Uricon2 · 20/09/2024 19:41

PinkyPhonk · 20/09/2024 09:45

@ViciousCurrentBun

I think it was the way it was said, together with other comments that have been made.

Yes, it can be asked positively : in a way to find out more about a person.

Or it can be asked in a negative way. It was a comment directed towards the whole family : where are they from then/also towards the children. The ‘oh right’ when I said the UK. I just got bad vibes. It was asked just as they left having said hello to me. It was that I felt terrible that my friend/her children might have heard as they walked away.

If you are certain about this as you seem to be, why are you going on holiday with her? Your DC can maintain a friendship without you being bosom chums with a woman you believe is racist. If that isn't possible, then you need to find ways of helping DC meet other people.

ReggaetonLente · 20/09/2024 22:36

redskydarknight · 20/09/2024 14:35

So exactly the point I was making. You are identified as "belonging" by others because you have a white skin and a London accent.

If you had the same London accent and a non-white skin, I can assure you that lots of people would be asking where you came from.

You can't see the problem in this? Or why it's racist?

Oh my goodness. In my life, when I have lived in Asia, people literally asked where I came from 50 times a day, despite being me fluent in the language and my kids being born there. This did not bother me.

my husband now experiences the same, in this country, despite having lived here for over half his life now. It doesn’t bother him either.

My children were regularly asked where they were from, in the country they were born in, and they happily shared the information without a second thought. Their heritage is obviously not that of the country they were born in. I do not think people were racist to ask them that, no.

I was just sharing my experience and as I said I accept that people feel differently.

BeGratefulOfGlimmers · 24/09/2024 12:23

Oh dear, let’s hope she doesn’t bring up grannies heating. Although, would love to hear his Labourite view. Oh to be a fly on the wall.

loobylou815 · 27/09/2024 01:05

ImustLearn2Cook · 19/09/2024 22:48

I am from Australia. If I were to go to visit or live in England and someone asked me where I was from because of my accent, would that be considered racist? Or would it simply be viewed as showing an interest?

Some people are just simply interested in other parts of the world and having a conversation with someone from another country can broaden our knowledge of different cultures. I don’t see this as racism.

I got chatting with a couple from England who were visiting Australia and they asked me where I was from. It turned out that they thought my accent was not an Australian accent. Which I found interesting. However, some people might interpret that as racism. I don’t interpret it that way.

I mistook a Canadian accent for an American accent once. Doesn’t make me an ignorant racist. Just I’m human, I don’t know everything and I make mistakes just like everyone else.

Being so quick to judge people, jumping to conclusions and policing people is leading us into being divisive, intolerant, prone to making false accusations, anger, contempt and hatred. That can’t be good for us.

Unless, this person showed a bit more evidence of being racist, how about giving her the benefit of the doubt?

With respect, being Australian isn’t a race and you’re unlikely to have experienced unfavourable treatment in the UK simply for being Australian, but sadly the same can’t be said for people of different ethnicities. As a white Brit with a fairly difficult to place accent I’m often asked where I’m from. I don’t take offence to this because I’m not being asked purely because of the colour of my skin and nor have I had to tolerate any unfavourable behaviour due to the colour of my skin.

The OP has made it clear this isn’t an isolated incident and that the school mum has made several other comments such as sympathising with racially motivated riots, so I think it’s fair to say that the comment about where the OPs other friend was from is a bit more sinister than harmless curiosity.

ImustLearn2Cook · 27/09/2024 02:21

loobylou815 · 27/09/2024 01:05

With respect, being Australian isn’t a race and you’re unlikely to have experienced unfavourable treatment in the UK simply for being Australian, but sadly the same can’t be said for people of different ethnicities. As a white Brit with a fairly difficult to place accent I’m often asked where I’m from. I don’t take offence to this because I’m not being asked purely because of the colour of my skin and nor have I had to tolerate any unfavourable behaviour due to the colour of my skin.

The OP has made it clear this isn’t an isolated incident and that the school mum has made several other comments such as sympathising with racially motivated riots, so I think it’s fair to say that the comment about where the OPs other friend was from is a bit more sinister than harmless curiosity.

Firstly, we are both regarding race differently. You seem to be regarding race as different ethnicity, different physical characteristics such as skin colour etc. Where as I am viewing race in terms of different cultures.

FWIW Australian’s are not just the white people whose ancestry goes back to convicts or free settlers. Australian’s are our First Nations people, people from a wide diversity of ethnic backgrounds and multiculturalism is part of our culture.

Defining race is difficult. If you are interested, you might enjoy further reading on defining race in my following copy and paste. I am going to bold sections that stand out to me.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/race-human

The modern meaning of the term race with reference to humans began to emerge in the 17th century. Since then it has had a variety of meanings in the languages of the Western world. What most definitions have in common is an attempt to categorize peoples primarily by their physical differences. In the United States, for example, the term race generally refers to a group of people who have in common some visible physical traits, such as skin colour, hair texture, facial features, and eye formation. Such distinctive features are associated with large, geographically separated populations, and these continental aggregates are also designated as races, as the “African race,” the “European race,” and the “Asian race.” Many people think of race as reflective of any visible physical (phenotypic) variations among human groups, regardless of the cultural context and even in the absence of fixed racial categories.

The term race has also been applied to linguistic groups (the “Arab race” or the “Latin race”), to religious groups (the “Jewish race”), and even to political, national, or ethnic groups with few or no physical traits that distinguish them from their neighbours (the “Irish race,” the “French race,” the “Spanish race,” the “Slavic race,” the “Chinese race”, etc.).

At no point, from the first rudimentary attempts at classifying human populations in the 17th and 18th centuries to the present day, have scientists agreed on the number of races of humankind, the features to be used in the identification of races, or the meaning of race itself. Experts have suggested a range of different races varying from 3 to more than 60, based on what they have considered distinctive differences in physical characteristics alone (these include hair type, head shape, skin colour, height, and so on). The lack of concurrence on the meaning and identification of races continued into the 21st century, and contemporary scientists are no closer to agreement than their forebears. Thus, race has never in the history of its use had a precise meaning.

Although most people continue to think of races as physically distinct populations, scientific advances in the 20th century demonstrated that human physical variations do not fit a “racial” model. Instead, human physical variations tend to overlap. There are no genes that can identify distinct groups that accord with the conventional race categories. In fact, DNA analyses have proved that all humans have much more in common, genetically, than they have differences. The genetic difference between any two humans is less than 1 percent. Moreover, geographically widely separated populations vary from one another in only about 6 to 8 percent of their genes. Because of the overlapping of traits that bear no relationship to one another (such as skin colour and hair texture) and the inability of scientists to cluster peoples into discrete racial packages, modern researchers have concluded that the concept of race has no biological validity.

Many scholars in other disciplines
now accept this relatively new scientific understanding of biological diversity in the human species. Moreover, they have long understood that the concept of race as relating solely to phenotypic traits encompasses neither the social reality of race nor the phenomenon of “racism.” Prompted by advances in other fields, particularly anthropology and history, scholars began to examine race as a social and cultural, rather than biological, phenomenon and have determined that race is a social invention of relatively recent origin.

ImustLearn2Cook · 27/09/2024 02:32

Racism is an incredibly important issue and it does need to be challenged, discussed and addressed seriously.

Calling someone racist is a very serious accusation and should only be used when there is sufficient evidence of that. We shouldn’t be using the term racism flippantly. It devalues what racism really is.

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