Teachers given lie-ins and extra days off

[LaughingPig]

The Guardian is reporting today that state schools are offering perks in an attempt to attract and retain teachers. These include lie-ins, whereby teachers will start later one day a week, a day off each fortnight and even the chance to work from home.

Clearly there is an issue with getting enough high-quality teachers into the profession and keeping them there. However, I’m not sure how these initiatives will go down with taxpayers on the back of successive teachers’ strikes, schools closing for months during lockdown and now inflation-busting pay rises.

Would you be happy with your DC’s teacher arriving to school late after a relaxing lie-in or logging on from home?

YABU- teachers deserve lie-ins
YANBU- teachers should be in class teaching DC

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I’m not sure you understand what a lead practitioner is - most schools don’t have them. A school can choose to have one or two across the school, very rarely will the school have one per department. Lead practitioners are heavily involved in staff training and improving teaching across the school, it’s a big role with a significant workload, they’re not just people with ‘experienced teacher status’They also rarely get offered the kind of money you keep mentioning. That is the top of the scale and no school is obliged to pay that!

Well now, we've got the usual bollocks about 'Teachers can earn...' along with impossible, unheard of salaries across most of the country. A small percentage of teachers are working in London. It isn't actually the centre of the universe. £85k? Absolutely laughable for the majority of teachers. In fact, it's becoming increasingly rare to reach the higher salary levels - research from NEU shows that 44% of teachers plan to leave within the first five years - so never even get to M6. The Teach First drop out rate suggests that 60% of their graduates don't make the 5 year mark.

I've just retired on UPS3 with a TLR as a Head of Dept/Head of Key Stage after 30 years in the job. I was earning £46,525 which is the maximum I could earn plus a TLR of £5349 for my additional responsibilities. So £51,874.

That's after 30 years of experience in my field. And unless I had ever wanted to apply for a job as Assistant or Deputy Head and basically take myself out of the classroom for the majority of my time there was no way I could earn more. I didn't want to become a data chaser - I liked being in a classroom and actually teaching.

But I won't be back. Not even for a lie in. What's interesting is that (and I may have missed other posters pointing it out) this is simply an article based on some report from 'Teach First' and if you are involved in teaching you'll be aware of the negative opinions many people hold about this bunch.

I'm not aware that many schools are offering 'lie ins and days off' - or that it is now official government policy. It won't be anywhere near enough to tackle the crisis in education where recruitment and retention is concerned.

It's certainly clear that the OP knows fuck all about working in a school or anything about the salaries or working hours of most teachers. It's funny how people who don't do the job seem to think they know all about it.

I think a lot of this is absolute nonsense - if they still expect me to teach the same amount of hours per week, then it doesn't make a difference if they let me have a 'lie-in' for an hour a fortnight, I'll still have to do the same amount of work, I'll just be doing it at a different time. This is all just noise to avoid getting to grips with the crux of the issue - they need to reduce class sizes or actually reduce the amount of hours teachers teach a week. Until that happens, the retention crisis isn't going anywhere.

Well anyone who thinks it's that cushy can apply to become one themselves can't they, if they want all the perks?

@thinkingndrinking Sticking with it. For now, anyway. For me personally, there are more pros than cons. I teach a different subject to the one I'm qualified in and wouldn't easily be able to get an equivalent job in state. I also love teaching KS3 (we are ages 3-13) but would not want to/be able to teach teenagers. I don't have children so don't need a high salary. Our replacement pension scheme is still quite good.

This is the weirdest thing I have ever read on here 😂

@LaughingPig, I cannot work you out. You have scores of teachers patiently trying to reflect the realities of professional progression and the teacher pay scale, yet you stick to your guns and stubbornly insist that, just because this it may be theoretically possible for a colleague to reach the rare and dizzying heights of Lead Practitioner in London, we can all supposedly access pay increments for 'taking on extra responsibilities' such as 'one-off responsibilities like creating a timetable'. WTF? What's your skin in this 'endeavoring-to-portray-teachers-as-generously-remunerated'-game?

Lead Practitioner is a distinctive role; most schools don't have any. A local authority or academy trust may decide to 'grow' a few LPs in specific subject areas for the purpose of delivering staff development across a region or MAT. They're not 'regular' classroom teachers who just happen to be good at their jobs, and therefore 'anyone can do it'.

The Upper Pay Spine for teachers (UPS1, 2 and 3) is hotly contested in schools, with cash strapped leadership teams having to gatekeep the scarce funds available and coming up with reasons why experienced colleagues are not eligible for transitioning from the Main Pay Spine to UPS, despite often meeting actual criteria. It is not uncommon for teachers to find, upon academisation or renewal of contract, a migration (with a statutory period of pay protection) from a previous UPS salary down to main scale, citing lack of available funds, take it or leave it.

Your comments are crafted in such a way as to imply that it is only teachers' reluctance to take on additional responsibilities which keeps the upper spines of the pay-scale out of reach. You fail to grasp that the kinds of additional responsibilities which merit these pay increases aren't things like volunteering for extra playground duties or running after school clubs, but rather leading significant whole school or across trust development projects which add value and measurable impact over time. There is not always a need for such large-scale projects, nor the funds to support them. One can't just approach one's leadership team and ask for an opportunity to lead a project, if there is no project to lead on. So it is a vanishingly small cohort of teachers for whom these increments are accessible. You are being very unreasonable and disingenuous for making out, as you do, that any UK teacher can earn those amounts when it's not true.

And your position on exclusions is abhorrent. I sincerely hope that your head teacher DP does not share your views. Ofsted take a dim view of exclusions too. Exclusions from school are a key indicator for poor outcomes for young people for life. While we are able to keep young people in school, we retain the opportunity to make positive impact on their lives in the long term. Exclusions literally ruin lives, hence the phrase "exclusion to prison pipeline".

I remember that ridiculous comment. You do realise people work shifts right? My brother and sister sleep during the day. My brother works in a food distribution warehouse and my sister in a care home. I also often got up later in the day when I worked 12-8 shifts. (Currently not working as on maternity leave.)

In my kids school there’s no lie day but it’s half a day/ shorter once a week so they leave early and a day off every couple of weeks.

Lol at the public wanting to see teachers working for their money.

The public won't see me working for my money because most sane people are asleep when I work. I have been up since 4am, preparing lessons since 4.30am and I've been responding to emails, still, at 8am last night from home (mostly to a parent who proceeded to email me until gone 10pm!).

For what it's worth I'm not in favour of the 9 day working fortnight for teachers, mainly because I envision it to be a childcare nightmare in the long run if every school participated (because it would inevitably lead to schools trying to save money by being open one day less a fortnight - if all your staff have one PPA day a fortnight it makes monetary sense to given them all the same one, close the school for that day, have your staff on 100% contact time the rest of the time and save thousands on electricity, heating and part-time staffing for cleaners/ caretakers etc.).

I've already pointed out why "letting teachers have a lie-in/ leave early" by giving them PPA time at the start or end of the day is mostly BS that won't work, but in case you have missed it: in secondary school (this will differ for primaries), unless your school does not have tutor time at the start, it makes no difference, because I'd still have to rock up for tutor time. In both types of school, staff are expected to attend morning briefings before teaching begins. After school, most schools have staff training/ an expectation to attend detentions for restorative conversations/ an expectation to meet parents/ open evenings/ parent evenings and other internal meetings that cannot happen while we are facing kids to teach. I can also not bulk photocopy at home, will not use my mobile phone to ring parents, trial practical work or play with IT systems, all of which happens during my PPA in school. Planning lessons and marking is the part that can be done at home, but the school day is so full on that having a PPA dotted around during the week is a godsend.

Our job is face to face and that is fine. It might be a drawback in the modern world, but the holidays are a perk that make up for it.

So while the OP clearly has a bee in her bonnet about the way some schools try to incentivise staff, WFH not a workable solution on a large scale.

The OP is wittering on a lot about leading practitioners. I am one, and work with another.

Neither of us earns anywhere near the top of that scale. And we work bloody hard. My curtains have been open for an hour already this morning, so that should reassure the arseholes.

OP how has it not escaped you or anyone else with half a brain cell that all schools will turn off the central heating as soon as children leave? Do you think a teacher would prefer to do their marking in their cold 5 degreeC classroom or in their warm living room at home whilst they have dinner cooking on the stove?

You even said yourself that they stop being paid their contractual hours at 3.30pm. How many jobs of ANY profession do you think the workers stay around unpaid on their work premises well after they stop being paid just for lolz?! And anyway just because they are not working on the premises, doesn’t meant they are not working off the premises.

And why is your husband free at 4pm everyday to stalk the car parks of schools? Why is he not working 9-5 like a regular hardworking worker so his shareholders can get “value out of him”? Do you both drive by at 7/7.30am each morning too and see the car park starting to fill up despite teachers only starting to get paid an hour later?

I've been teaching secondary for 20 years.

I am a SENDCo. The parents I support will have noticed that I want some correspondence at 5am yesterday, because if I don't clear my inbox before school, I watch it fill up as I'm teaching (I get a time allocation but it's patchy).

I didn't have lunch because I was speaking to children and doing some work.

I ran a club after school for an hour yesterday, then came back to a full inbox, which I then cleared. It was full again by evening.

Most jobs only have the inbox bit, they don't have the teaching, lunch duty, speaking to children, running choir, doing home visits bit on top of teaching 5 lessons per day (planning, marking, delivering).

OP, YABU. If you want decent professionals, let them have some perks.

Teachers pay taxes too and many of them are parents as well. The incentives such as a later start and more flexibility are to try and compete with WFH/ hybrid jobs that many considering teaching or leaving teaching would be eminently qualified to do.

I understand where you are coming from but in some schools non-specialist teachers are teaching subjects for which they are not qualified. (They will all have QTS in state schools though). I would rather have flexible working practices scheduled into timetables, qualified and productive (plus happier) staff in front of my DC. It would have to be done carefully though with excellent management/leadership. I wouldn’t worry too much about what taxpayers or hardworking parents’ perceptions as they don’t know the reality of life in many schools and they can always train to be teachers too and enjoy the ‘flexibility’… 😊😊

They will all have QTS in state schools though

No they won't

Teachers already have time out of the classroom to do planning, preparation and assessment, while someone else covers the class. It makes no difference to children or parents whether they do those jobs in the staff room or at home. Stop trying to stir.

Great idea. My friend who's a teacher was working last night at 10pm as she Whatsapp me. She has an afternoon off a week to wfh and was lesson planning etc. she rushed out to collect her dc but I know had to return to her computer to finish her work after she collected them. The amount of extra hours a teacher does it is ridiculous

I know some academies are using TAs and cover supervisors. They can be excellent but it isn’t fair at all and should not be happening.

Anyway, I must get on, off of Mumsnet and ensure the taxpayers get value for money today!!! 😆😆

Am I reading this correctly, op? You think that because I’m employed by the state and you pay taxes, you get a say in my working conditions?

I have a 1st in maths and computer science from a red brick university, Can program in multiple different languages, have industry experience making mobile software. I run 75% of the computer science department, but get paid exactly zero and get given no extra time for doing it due to the horrendous underfunding of schools in recent years. I am well regarded, have an exemplary record of performance, sickness, etc.

Please tell me one other job with my skills and fifteen years experience which would pay under fifty thousand. I am worth every single penny I am paid twice over.

I love my job enormously, but posts like yours make me realise why some of my students have such entitled attitudes.

@LaughingPig

I read your comments and it's clear you don't appear to like teachers much. You wouldn't want to see their curtains closed and your DH watches the teachers car park. 😂

Most of us value you.

I agree reading the op's views does help one understand why some students have a poor attitude. 😕

You're stuck on a loop. Poor thing.

It’s not really a great look for hardworking parents to see class teachers heading off home during the school day or walking past a teacher’s home to see the bedroom curtains closed on a weekday morning.

Eh? Lots of teachers work part time so may well go into school or leave at various times during the school or stay in bed until 11am three days a week! Shock horror- you may even bump into them shopping during a school day if it's not a day they work.

Except that most schools got rid of this because it's too expensive. My shcool had 8 people who were LP and then the school said" we dont have money to pay them", so all they have now is a certificate.
Please stop posting about stuff you have nbo idea about, it's embarassing, every single post from you is worse than the previous.