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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Teachers given lie-ins and extra days off

1000 replies

LaughingPig · 19/09/2024 15:37

The Guardian is reporting today that state schools are offering perks in an attempt to attract and retain teachers. These include lie-ins, whereby teachers will start later one day a week, a day off each fortnight and even the chance to work from home.

Clearly there is an issue with getting enough high-quality teachers into the profession and keeping them there. However, I’m not sure how these initiatives will go down with taxpayers on the back of successive teachers’ strikes, schools closing for months during lockdown and now inflation-busting pay rises.

Would you be happy with your DC’s teacher arriving to school late after a relaxing lie-in or logging on from home?

YABU- teachers deserve lie-ins
YANBU- teachers should be in class teaching DC

Link

Teachers in England offered lie-ins to make job more appealing

Other perks including nine-day fortnight and more planning time at home offered to attract recruits

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2024/sep/19/teachers-in-england-offered-incentives-to-make-job-appealing

OP posts:
Greentomatoes21 · 19/09/2024 22:29

LaughingPig · 19/09/2024 15:54

@JSMill

It’s not a point I personally care about but I do think taxpayers expect to get value from the services they are funding, including teachers. Particularly after school strikes, lockdown closures and large pay rises.

I can imagine a bit of animosity if, say, a teacher neighbour’s bedroom curtains were to be seen closed late on a weekday morning.

Teachers pay tax too btw.

Speakyminder · 19/09/2024 22:30

@LaughingPig
I don’t know any schools local to me that pay £16,000 for an extra TLR (Teaching and Learning Responsibly). My Head of Department is on £6k extra and is head of a core subject, responsible for 1000 pupils. It depends entirely on the school and LA budgets, so while there is the ‘potential’ to earn that, in theory, the reality is very different.

Also, so much work goes on at home anyway - you just don’t see it. If I could get a morning off, it would certain go some way to balancing the late nights I put in marking and planning, after DC is in bed.

I agree with you that more needs to be done in this country to value education and teaching staff. Maybe going some way to addressing the very difficult work-life balance and not berating teachers for closing their blinds would be a start. When you’re on the coal face 8.30-3, you do not have time to mark and plan- that tends to happen at home -and it’s naive to think that, just because a school car park is empty, nobody is working into their evenings and weekends. Lots of us go home and crack on with marking/planning in the evening when we’ve had a chance to decompress a little.

Msmbc · 19/09/2024 22:34

I'm amazed there are still people who don't know that teachers are massively overworked. It's an incredibly hard stressful job with constant unpaid overtime. I literally just had a teacher friend tell me that being told she could do her two hours of planning time a week at home had led her to decide that she'd stay in the teaching profession for a few more years, when she had she just couldn't hack it any more (after 14 years in the job). You are being so so unreasonable

LaughingPig · 19/09/2024 22:35

I actually think Northern Ireland is a good place to look when it comes to how schools could be improved. They have much better exam outcomes than England and generally a much better cultural attitude towards education and working hard at school.

OP posts:
ridl14 · 19/09/2024 22:36

I'm a career changer and have worked private sector and charity before teaching. There is no comparison in terms of burnout (in my experience - I have not worked in the NHS, emergency services etc. I have worked shift work in hospitality also). Genuinely the most exhausting and relentless job I've ever done. Yes, that headline was incredibly annoying and no doubt it misleads the under-informed.

My school has let us take one of our (3) 50 minute planning periods from home if it's at the start or end of the day. We already have to take work home evenings and weekends to prop up the school system, unpaid and all year, whether we requested or can take those 50 minutes or not. That's not taking into account open evenings, parents' evenings, options evening or after school meetings that mean we make up that planning time on top of what we were already bringing home, after a 12+ hour day in person at school.

Last year at a new school I was working on average 12-14 hours a day (on a normal day when not required to stay in school late) including planning time at home. I've managed to reduce this by returning to the same school this year and working through pregnancy, but am still working outside contact hours.

I wake up at 6am and many of us work past 7/8pm at night. It makes it difficult to carry out activities after school plus dinner and house chores, childcare for those with children, school pick-up etc - the flexible WFH time allows people to do some of these once a week. Alternatively, if it's in the morning, they may be able to get to school for 9am instead of 8am (though most of us arrive before the required contact hours eg. 7.30am or earlier in order to prep, print, plan etc before any before-school meetings or children arriving). A friend of mine with an ill parent regularly gets up at 5am to prep lessons, those I know with small children are often planning in late hours of the night or early hours of the morning.

In office jobs, I never used to take all my annual leave (as someone with a medical condition that often causes exhaustion). It would often end up piling up in December or needing to be rolled until the next year. In teaching, much as there can be moments of joy every day, we are crawling to the holidays and they really are burnout prevention. It's also very difficult to get to doctor's or dentist appointments during termtime and creates extra work (making, leaving and following up cover) to do so, including for my prenatal appointments. Flexible PPA can be used for this also.

We cannot take breaks when we want, and often can't take advantage of the scheduled ones. I have just worked 4 full days with no free periods, two before school meetings and two hour-long after school meetings. I have not taken any (30 min) lunch breaks, eating at my desk in a hurry and working through. Breaktime is 15 minutes, eaten into by children staying back with questions and basically my time to get to a bathroom - we cannot use the bathroom, get a drink or take a breather when we want. I have worked at least 7.30-4.30 each day.

I know the headline is deliberately inflammatory and I'm surprised at it from the Guardian, but hope this gives some context. When I had office jobs including as a manager, I could work from home at least once a week and got a lie-in until 9/9.30 - far later than would be an option at school, and I never had to work as many hours except during peak deadline time, for which we had informal TOIL and lighter periods to make up for it, plus breaks when we wanted, the ability to book a morning or afternoon off for a medical appointment and not have the expectation to return to school as soon as possible that day.

It is a shame and definitely misinformed to think teachers are going to be slacking off as a result. There is a deluge of capable teachers leaving the profession, particularly mothers. An A level class at my old school had to be taught online at 7.30pm across London as there were no Physics/Further Maths teachers able to take the class - that is the grim future of education. A bit of flexibility I fear is not enough for parents or for the immense pressure educators are under from schools and externally, I've seen lots of people crack and have mental health affected.

Genuinely curious what job you do though and how it compares to teaching?

SanctusInDistress · 19/09/2024 22:39

Teachers don’t get paid enough and they have stressful jobs. It’s the education of tbe future that’s at stake so well worth it.

happy teachers = teachers who care = good teachers = students who are motivated = social mobility.

everybody wins.

next they need to get rid of ofsted.

cadburyegg · 19/09/2024 22:40

I think this is a great idea. There is literally no reason why teachers have to be in school to do marking or lesson planning, so why not let them work from home when they can. The world has changed and many employers are offering hybrid working. Why shouldn't teachers enjoy some of the same perks? Starting later is a good idea too, if it makes my DC's teacher happier to take their own children to school one day a week rather than having to get them up at the crack of dawn for breakfast club then it's a fab idea.

I want my children's teachers to have job satisfaction and to feel valued.

FrippEnos · 19/09/2024 22:41

echt · 19/09/2024 22:22

Not the case in any school where I've ever taught.

Got to say I saw a pattern where a significant number of those who sought SLT and up where were less than impressive in front of a class.

Pretty much the same here.
Most of the SLT I have ever worked under including HTs have been pretty useless.

YOYOK · 19/09/2024 22:42

spanieleyes · 19/09/2024 21:19

The median teacher pay for 2023/24 was £46,280- which is someway off your £85k!

Yes but that’s because teachers have no career drive and don’t take on extra responsibilities. The median salary is lower than what the OP says because the teachers are still sleepy from lying in bed with the curtains closed.
Besides, given teachers only work 9 till 3 and have very long holidays, that’s actually a huuuuuuge salary.
I know the above is true because my colleague’s sister’s ex-best friend’s dog walker lives next door to a man who was once married to a teacher.

^^ sarcasm in case someone doesn’t read it right!

mrsm43s · 19/09/2024 22:43

Mumtobabyhavoc · 19/09/2024 22:14

OP stated he likes what he does. Doesn't mean one is compensated appropriately, nor preclude from wanting that. Most feel a strong obligation to their students and profession.

Old guy on the checkouts. Loves his job. Been there forever, loves his customers. Doesn't want any more responsibility. Should he be paid more than the new checkout person doing the same job?

FrippEnos · 19/09/2024 22:45

LaughingPig · 19/09/2024 22:35

I actually think Northern Ireland is a good place to look when it comes to how schools could be improved. They have much better exam outcomes than England and generally a much better cultural attitude towards education and working hard at school.

Interesting how you now say better schools.
and link it to better exam outcomes.
Across Europe teachers have a better deal, fewer contact hours, more PPA time, sabbaticals and dedicated mental health support for when things go wrong, and much better support and respect form pupils, parents, government, SM and MSM.

FrippEnos · 19/09/2024 22:46

mrsm43s · 19/09/2024 22:43

Old guy on the checkouts. Loves his job. Been there forever, loves his customers. Doesn't want any more responsibility. Should he be paid more than the new checkout person doing the same job?

But the posters DS is already taking more responsibility and working beyond the requirements of his job and contract.

cardibach · 19/09/2024 22:47

mrsm43s · 19/09/2024 22:43

Old guy on the checkouts. Loves his job. Been there forever, loves his customers. Doesn't want any more responsibility. Should he be paid more than the new checkout person doing the same job?

Checkout isn’t a skilled job. Teaching is. The longer you’ve been doing it the better you’ll be so, all things being equal, an experienced teacher will be a better teacher. Which is why we used to have guaranteed increments. They are going away.

BarbaraHoward · 19/09/2024 22:52

LaughingPig · 19/09/2024 22:35

I actually think Northern Ireland is a good place to look when it comes to how schools could be improved. They have much better exam outcomes than England and generally a much better cultural attitude towards education and working hard at school.

Based on MN, one of the most important things England could take from teaching in NI (and Ireland) is that teachers' workloads are much more sensible here.

Mumtobabyhavoc · 19/09/2024 22:52

mrsm43s · 19/09/2024 22:43

Old guy on the checkouts. Loves his job. Been there forever, loves his customers. Doesn't want any more responsibility. Should he be paid more than the new checkout person doing the same job?

Respectfully, your rhetoric is an oversimplification and assumes a false equivalency. Forgive me, but I'll let others far more articulate, and from the field, weigh in.
Your question, unless I misunderstand, isn't really to my point.

Josette77 · 19/09/2024 22:53

LaughingPig · 19/09/2024 15:54

@JSMill

It’s not a point I personally care about but I do think taxpayers expect to get value from the services they are funding, including teachers. Particularly after school strikes, lockdown closures and large pay rises.

I can imagine a bit of animosity if, say, a teacher neighbour’s bedroom curtains were to be seen closed late on a weekday morning.

Why? How would the neighbour even know why they were closed, and why does the neighbour have so much time to stalk the teacher?

rubyslipperss · 19/09/2024 22:55

SunQueen24 · 19/09/2024 15:59

Also suspect this post is being used to form an article for daily fail.

Definitely this .
OP you do realise don't you most teachers work well past their weekly hours for free ? Sounds all good to me .

MistressIggi · 19/09/2024 22:56

JudgeJ · 19/09/2024 22:18

It used to be said that sadly, the best teachers are promoted out of the classroom whereas the mediocre stay there!

Where did you hear this said, in the Headteacher's office? 😂
I've never heard that said in my (long) life. I have often heard the expression "shit rises", however.

Charlie554 · 19/09/2024 22:57

LaughingPig · 19/09/2024 15:44

One point I do think needs to be considered is that parents and taxpayers want to see teachers ‘working for their wage’ so to speak, given these are funded through taxation.

It’s not really a great look for hardworking parents to see class teachers heading off home during the school day or walking past a teacher’s home to see the bedroom curtains closed on a weekday morning.

“Working for their wage”? And that attitude is exactly why people either don’t want to be teachers or quit in their droves within five years

lovemetomybones · 19/09/2024 22:58

It's not additional time, it's about putting together the few hours planning a teacher has and saying work from home if you wish. It will lead to burnout. I have 3 hours a week spare to do planning and prep and my line management meeting. So really two. If they are coupled together and said o can come in late on one day, a.) I need printers etc to plan my work which I don't have at home and the rest of the week would be absolutely manic of full days and having to come in extra early or leave extra late to do the work required around lessons.

It's a stupid idea created by someone who isn't a teacher.

And op's comments are not helpful, you have no idea.

Flibflobflibflob · 19/09/2024 22:59

I actually really appreciate Dd’s teachers, granted she’s in private but they really do go the extra mile to ensure her needs are met. I think we should be a bit kinder to them tbh. It’s a hellish job which parents no doubt make worse. If it were cushty more would want to do it.

Balloonhearts · 19/09/2024 23:07

LaughingPig · 19/09/2024 15:44

One point I do think needs to be considered is that parents and taxpayers want to see teachers ‘working for their wage’ so to speak, given these are funded through taxation.

It’s not really a great look for hardworking parents to see class teachers heading off home during the school day or walking past a teacher’s home to see the bedroom curtains closed on a weekday morning.

You are really overthinking this. What is your child's teachers address? Do you have any idea? So how would you or anyone else know what time they open their curtains? Plus mine are shut all day in winter anyway. I leave in the dark and come home in the dark so why bother opening them at all? Doubt my neighbours notice or care.

Do you spend your lunchbreaks standing outside school watching for those cheeky skivers to make their escape? No? Me either!

Dilysthemilk · 19/09/2024 23:08

When I was teaching I would get in at 7:15am every day. I was never the first in. People have no idea just how much work there is to be done. They have to do something to make the job more doable.

Ljhunt · 19/09/2024 23:10

LaughingPig · 19/09/2024 21:23

@FrivolousKitchenRollUse

Well, too of the less practitioner pay scale in London is over £85k (over £76k elsewhere). The extra responsibility that can add up to the £16k can include being e.g. head of department or also a one-off project like creating a timetable.

Hahaha I’m the school timetabler at my school (large secondary) and get an extra £2500 a year for it…,..

oustedbymymate · 19/09/2024 23:17

Would I be happy with my DV teacher having a lie in? If the alternative is endless supply of unqualified teachers I'd take the lie in for
Someone who is qualified and passionate.

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