to think that putting explosives in devices such as pagers and walkie talkies can lead to indiscriminate injuries and killings

[cakeorwine]

Let's get the first thing out of the way - it's not right to fire missiles and rockets at people - as that can cause indiscriminate injuries as well.

Putting explosives in devices such as pagers and walkie talkies - it sounds clever. Just send a signal and an explosion goes off potentially injuring and killing your opponent who has it. It will also disrupt communication methods.

But once you put the explosive in it, you lose control of where it goes and when it gets blown up. It could be a child has it. It could be on a plane - and might not be picked up by security.

You don't know where it ends up. Which means that it has the potential for unintended consequences.

What about any that didn't go off? Are there objects that have been booby trapped and are just potentially waiting to explode - and who knows where they are? The thing about booby traps is that you just don't know who will set them off.

Booby traps seem to be against the International Humanitarian Law if they can injure civillians.

Customary IHL - Rule 80. Booby-Traps (icrc.org)

Israel is not proscribed as terrorist. Did you mean to say that in your pp?

And do you accept that the UK has proscribed Hamas and Hezbollah as terrorists?

Ah, so the UN have announced that Israel are "terrorists"? No. Recheck your facts please.

I do know that.
i don’t think you are reading my posts.
My view is that Israel’s actions are terrorist actions.

Here we go again I see. Yes Hamas and Hizbollah are terrorists.

No this is not what I am saying. I thought you asked why I think they are war criminals. And let’s also be clear I am referring to the Israeli government here.

What do you mean by 'here we go again'?

Being proscribed as terrorists carries weight in the UK and there are legal actions that can be taken if you support them. Hence MNHQ warning not to.

As your words on Israel are hazy I thought I'd check

You are obviously very confused. I have not said a single thing which suggest I am pro Hamas or Hizbollah.

Terrorist being killed by acts of terrorism, doesn’t make either side less of a terrorist.

Indiscriminate explosions, taking place among the population, killing all ages .. is terrorism.

You can use UN descriptions until you are blue in the face, it was a terrorist attack, on foreign soil, backed by an overseas government.

No Hezbollah is not Lebanon but is operating on the Lebanese soil. That is why the actions of the Israeli government are breaching international laws.
I do agree with your last point.
I was listening to an ex Lebanese MP on radio 4 lunchtime news. She dispelled a lot of myths regarding her country.

You can't actually say anything until you are blue in the face.

Proscribed terrorist has legal meaning in the U.K.

Read MNHQ link if you are unsure

@BellaBionda I am not confused but your posts were muddled

@EasternStandard - what is muddled exactly? Please point out exactly where I am expressing any sort of sympathies with Hamas or Hizbollah in my posts. It’s quite serious to accuse someone of being a terrorist supporter so grateful if you can clarify please

I didn't accuse you I did want to ask as the definitions seemed muddled.

The definitions have clear legal status in the U.K. and for that I'm grateful, plus MNHQ upholding this.

No you just find it difficult to comprehend that someone can be against the actions of Israel and also not be a Hamas supporter.

There is no law which states that I need to call Hamas terrorists by the way. The BBC don’t and also believe Reuters never do to signal impartiality (unless they have changed their position. I might not be up to date).

@BellaBionda no you are not correct there

I know the reason I asked

So eastern standard are you saying that if a group isn't on the list then they're not terrorists?

The definition of terrorism for the purpose of proscription is:

“Terrorism” as defined in the act, means the use or threat of action which: involves serious violence against a person; involves serious damage to property; endangers a person’s life (other than that of the person committing the act); creates a serious risk to the health or safety of the public or section of the public or is designed seriously to interfere with or seriously to disrupt an electronic system.

The use or threat of such action must be designed to influence the government or an international governmental organisation or to intimidate the public or a section of the public, and must be undertaken for the purpose of advancing a political, religious, racial or ideological cause.

Which to me sounds like the kind of thing that releasing an unknown number of covert, remotely triggered bombs into a civilian population might fit right into.

This is terror tactics, they are not a proscribed organisation clearly, but the method of engagement is right out of a terror handbook.

You are just not able to explain it then!

Do you not understand that the people who do it don’t give a flying fluffy shit who they maim, kill and disfigure? Man woman child to them all are fair game. May they rot in hell

@BellaBionda I said I was looking for clarification as your posts seemed muddled

I'm starting to suspect that Israel had intelligence Hezbollah had something planned for the anniversary of October 7th.

Yes I’m wondering this too.

Most things I have read is that they were about to be found out and detonated them earlier than they intended to.

I think the plan was this was to precede a more major operation which they do seem to have now started. However, the haste that they are moving troops northwards suggests that the timing wasn’t optimal for Israel.

So a direct equivalent is: as the Israeli government has enated a genocide on Gaza, it would be OK for Gazans to assassinate just the PM and military command to stop it. If there was some collateral damage with other Israelis killed too you'd be OK with that?

@TeatimeForTheSoul ,

Hamas are terrorists, not legal combatants, so that is a false equivalence.

But, if Israel were to have a hot war with Iran, and the Iranians managed to plant a similar booby trap on IDF kit, I would view it as a legitimate tactic.

Voting is broadly matched on these types of threads. Elon Musk was probably right.

They have made people (and not just terrorists) worry about electronic devices and worry about where the next explosion is coming from and whether they will be injured.

If you were living in a country where 5000 devices had been booby trapped and exploded, killing people, injuring others - would you be worried about devices and worried about what could happen next and whether you or your loved ones could get caught up in an explosion from a booby trapped device.

Is there a state of terror in the public in Lebanon? Was this intended or an unintended consequence?

Looks like Israel is now using those metal pointy things launched from artillery to hit the terrorists today.