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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Accusing women of being men

156 replies

poppyzbrite4 · 13/09/2024 08:47

Brigette Macron has just been awarded compensation after a rumour that she's a man went viral. Michelle Obama has also been accused of being a man as has Jacinda Ahern.

Why are famous women being accused of being men?
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/brigitte-macron-false-transgender-claims-france-b2611899.html

OP posts:
Simonjt · 13/09/2024 16:42

LimeFawn · 13/09/2024 13:08

What, like the Algerian boxer that bloody JK Rowling is obsessed with despite absolutely no credible medical evidence being made public to prove her allegations.

So it’s misogyny when it Michelle Obama but not when it’s an Algerian female boxer who doesn’t conform to female gender stereotypes.

There was a whole fucking thread on Mumsnet about it and how she must be a man - incredible hypocrisy as ever.

Ah yes, JKR who pretends to promote womens rights, yet reliably stays quiet when women are attacked, raped or murdered, very quiet on abortion and the reduction of women rights in the ME too.

Naunet · 13/09/2024 16:43

Daltonbear1 · 13/09/2024 16:31

Absolute bull crap which is why some women are accused kf being men they are doing it on twitter hell they even thought Daniel Radcliffe pregnant girl friend was trans. That's women too. Why is it butch women not sure of any other term sorry, have been accused of being men somebin America I saw a video been screamed at by other women not yo use toilets but she was a woman so I call bull crap on people telling

No, they say he’s a man because he’s a man, as confirmed by testing.

Im sorry you struggle to tell the difference between the sexes, but most of us don’t. Even dogs can tell the difference between men and women, for god sake, why pretend we as humans can’t?

Helleofabore · 13/09/2024 16:44

poppyzbrite4 · 13/09/2024 16:27

I suspect she won because she has a lot of money.

Yes. You could be spot on there too.

Daltonbear1 · 13/09/2024 16:46

Naunet · 13/09/2024 16:43

No, they say he’s a man because he’s a man, as confirmed by testing.

Im sorry you struggle to tell the difference between the sexes, but most of us don’t. Even dogs can tell the difference between men and women, for god sake, why pretend we as humans can’t?

Who is a man Daniel Radcliffe gf is not and nor are women being shouted at for being butch

AlisonDonut · 13/09/2024 16:48

Daltonbear1 · 13/09/2024 16:46

Who is a man Daniel Radcliffe gf is not and nor are women being shouted at for being butch

I think the OP wants to move on from the two male boxers in the Olympics which is who this person is referring to.

Helleofabore · 13/09/2024 16:48

Simonjt · 13/09/2024 16:42

Ah yes, JKR who pretends to promote womens rights, yet reliably stays quiet when women are attacked, raped or murdered, very quiet on abortion and the reduction of women rights in the ME too.

Are you fucking serious? She funds a rape centre. She has also paid to have vulnerable women airlifted out of countries where they were threatened.

If you have missed all the other things she highlights and funds through her donations, maybe it is that you have a misogynistic view that means that she must actively fund and discuss the exact set of issues that you want her to, rather than her personal failings.

Naunet · 13/09/2024 16:48

Daltonbear1 · 13/09/2024 16:46

Who is a man Daniel Radcliffe gf is not and nor are women being shouted at for being butch

Sorry, women are shouted at for being butch? Being butch or being a man, or are they both the same things to you?

Daltonbear1 · 13/09/2024 16:50

Naunet · 13/09/2024 16:48

Sorry, women are shouted at for being butch? Being butch or being a man, or are they both the same things to you?

Jesus wept stay out of this conversation obviously to much for u christ almighty

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 13/09/2024 16:50

Simonjt · 13/09/2024 16:42

Ah yes, JKR who pretends to promote womens rights, yet reliably stays quiet when women are attacked, raped or murdered, very quiet on abortion and the reduction of women rights in the ME too.

Not enough eye roll space for this. Nah, she just funds a rape crisis centre off her own coin. She founded the Lumos Foundation.
She donated loads to get women lawyers
out of Afghanistan when the Taliban
rode back in. What a bitch. What do you do?

What she’s done for women and girls and their right to ensure single sex spaces remains just that is immense. JKR doesn’t have to comment on every single instance of VAWG. She’d be here all day. She doesn’t owe anyone anything. What she puts, or doesn’t put, on Twatter or whatever it’s called now is her business.

Naunet · 13/09/2024 16:50

Simonjt · 13/09/2024 16:42

Ah yes, JKR who pretends to promote womens rights, yet reliably stays quiet when women are attacked, raped or murdered, very quiet on abortion and the reduction of women rights in the ME too.

Well done, you’ve made the most ridiculous comment on this thread, and that’s saying something.

Daltonbear1 · 13/09/2024 16:51

Naunet · 13/09/2024 16:50

Well done, you’ve made the most ridiculous comment on this thread, and that’s saying something.

Nope the person is correct

Naunet · 13/09/2024 16:52

Daltonbear1 · 13/09/2024 16:50

Jesus wept stay out of this conversation obviously to much for u christ almighty

Edited

It’s a simple question, are all these butch women being shouted at (according to you) for being men, or for being butch, as you said above?

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 13/09/2024 16:55

Simonjt · 13/09/2024 16:37

My cousin and her wife have this problem with adults, my cousin in particularly has been verbally abused on many occasions for using the changing room at her gym, she now changes in the accessible changing room to escape abuse.

So the fact that she’s a woman isn’t dispelled the minute she opens her mouth? And she still faces abuse by all these women in changing rooms? Is she a regular patron? That’s unfortunate.

Helleofabore · 13/09/2024 17:24

No one has said there will never be female people who will make mistakes about the correct sex of a person. The point is that they are much more likely to be accurate in real life and with interaction.

For instance, it is often the voice that will help a person decide whether the person is female or male. It is made harder when there is a sub culture of female people who micro dose on testosterone to get a better ‘butch’ look. We have been told about this from one who does this on threads before.

Those who are claiming how horrific it is that women are being asked if they are in the correct toilets, isn’t it even more horrific that female people who need single sex spaces feel so unsafe in those spaces that they have to ask to ascertain whether someone is female ?

I think those expressing how horrific it is that female people are being asked are missing the significance of why female people are being asked.

Also, we have testimony of some of those female people being asked who value the women who are asking. They actually thank those women. Because those women asking are trying to make sure female single sex spaces are maintained as single sex.

I grew up being asked if I was in the right sex toilet. Sure, it was embarassing as a child, but I now look back and realise that there was no ill intention. Women were merely making sure the toilets were single sex.

No one should be abused. But politely asking is not abuse.

And again, if Michelle Obama or Venus William or any of the female people mentioned on this thread were asked, what do you (generally) think they would do? Probably say ‘I am female, thank you.’ And leave it at that.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/09/2024 17:30

That was Exhibit A of how transphobia naturally extended to hounding women who weren't even trans.

It wasn't a) transphobia or b) hounding a woman. I can tell you have no idea what you're talking about.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/09/2024 17:34

Hmm, 70 million people agree with you eh?

Oh no, they must definitely agree with you that the word woman means any man who says he is one, of course.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/09/2024 17:39

Ah yes, JKR who pretends to promote womens rights, yet reliably stays quiet when women are attacked, raped or murdered, very quiet on abortion and the reduction of women rights in the ME too

That comment shows just how much you know about what she does. Did you get that from the Independent? Pink News? Or just some idiot mouthing off on Twitter?

Theeyeballsinthesky · 13/09/2024 17:41

I notice the ZOMG you’re all terrible transphobes and JKR is an awful person cos reasons have decided to comment on this thread and not on any of the threads about a man who prioritised himself above rape victims has finally been given the boot. How very odd….

anyway back to OP. I do think with Madame macron there is a whole load of stuff bound up with the age gap between them and her being his teacher. It just seems to make people take leave of their senses. I also assume that frankly the perpetrators of this lunacy are not the sharpest knives in the box

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/09/2024 17:42

Was just about to mention her age too, @Theeyeballsinthesky as something which might have inspired trolling.

Helleofabore · 13/09/2024 17:47

gannett · 13/09/2024 13:15

It's not surprising to me. At school, the first thing that bullies (of either sex) pick on is their target's gender identity. Boy bullies called the smaller boys "girly", "sissy" etc. Girl bullies called the girls who didn't conform to conventional beauty standards "manly" or "tranny".

Some people never get out of that mindset even as adults.

The point about "masculine" insults historically aimed at Black women is also important (as well as Michelle Obama and the Williams sisters, I remember the R&B singer Ciara getting these insults).

I'm not going to get into a trans bunfight on this thread but that mindset is also the root of all those ridiculous transphobes swearing they can tell a trans woman from a cis woman just by looking at them. Suspecting anyone who doesn't look conventionally feminine of being trans is just an excuse to point fingers at women who don't "perform" gender correctly - butch women, tall women, women who prefer "masculine" clothes - whether they're trans or not.

"Suspecting anyone who doesn't look conventionally feminine of being trans is just an excuse to point fingers at women who don't "perform" gender correctly - butch women, tall women, women who prefer "masculine" clothes - whether they're trans or not."

Err... no.

A male who declares they are a woman is nothing like a 'butch woman', a 'tall woman', or 'women who prefer masculine clothes'.

A male who declares that they are a woman, is a male who is either using their own set of stereotypes to reject that they are male or to wedge themselves into being a 'female'. But they are are still just a male person. And they are never a female person like 'butch woman', a 'tall woman', or 'women who prefer masculine clothes'.

And cis is a meaningless word. It usage means that female people no longer have a descriptor (because even 'female' has been acquired by some male people) to describe themselves as uniquely different from male people.

See below. 'cis' includes male people who have medical conditions where they were incorrectly registered as being female.

So, both 'cis' and 'trans women as terms include male people. Female has also been used by male people to describe themselves. There is no unique descriptor of female people that relates to their needs and their sexed bodies.

Accusing women of being men
Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/09/2024 17:51

There's no such thing as a "cis woman". Women are female. Male trans people that some people call "transwomen" are male.

Riapia · 13/09/2024 17:54

Hoppinggreen · 13/09/2024 08:55

Maybe because some men DO actually pretend to be women?
Not talking about these 2 women of course

Are you absolutely sure of that.
😉😁😁.

TempestTost · 13/09/2024 17:57

I think it's a kind of social contagion.

Some nitwit thought up a theory, and it got some attention on the internet, so now people are making up some similar theories about other people.

It's same way people copy other stupid shit.

I don't think there's actually much more to this particular phenomena, it will likely fade soon.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/09/2024 18:07

Yes I agree @TempestTost

TheCrenchinglyMcQuaffenBrothers · 13/09/2024 18:59

Simonjt · 13/09/2024 16:42

Ah yes, JKR who pretends to promote womens rights, yet reliably stays quiet when women are attacked, raped or murdered, very quiet on abortion and the reduction of women rights in the ME too.

Maaate, I thought you were usually quite sensible, and informed. But that's just embarrassing.