Accusing women of being men

[poppyzbrite4]

Brigette Macron has just been awarded compensation after a rumour that she's a man went viral. Michelle Obama has also been accused of being a man as has Jacinda Ahern.

Why are famous women being accused of being men?
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/brigitte-macron-false-transgender-claims-france-b2611899.html

It has been used by quite a number of male athletes who, because of the IOC weak leadership, have achieved medals, financial gain and acclaim while competing in female sports. All because at their birth they were incorrectly registered but have since gone through any degree of male puberty.

Semenya is the one who we know which Difference of sex development condition Semenya has. Thanks to Semenya's going to the CAS to overturn the testosterone suppression ruling.

Just look at the two male boxers that we also know have failed sex testing. And the two or three Zambian footballers (the highest paid female footballers in the world) who the Zambian football organisation knew would 'fail' sex testing too.

There are so many more. There is a basketballer who, like Semenya, self publishes images of themselves without shirts etc. These athletes know very well what they are doing. And society has to play along until the moment their sex can be proven.

And that can only happen when sporting organisations make female sports only open to sex tested female athletes.

I wonder what proportion of misogynistic attacks are actually by women or whether this again is an example of a woman getting more attention than the hundred's of men who do the same or worse? (I could be exposing my own bias though!)

Interesting point. I'll try and dig out the article. As far as I remember, the IP address of the woman was traced and she was responsible for the majority of vitriolic posts - I think she was prosecuted.

Women are not 'fucking obsessed about trans people'. Women and girls are 'fucking obsessed' with campaigning to have their sex based needs prioritised over male people's demand that their gender is prioritised first.

And generally, yes, in real life interaction the majority of female people (children included) can correctly sex a male person.

Not because of what they wear or their foot size. Because of many other male body cues that do not change with 'transition. Just the face alone has many cues such as brow ridges, cheek bones, the proportion between the nose and top of the lips, the shape of the upper lip, the slant of a person's eyes, the hairline, the jaw line and so on. Hence it is rare even for those male people who have their entire face peeled off and sewn back on to 'pass' really. And as they get older, even with FFS the maleness comes back.

Then there is the skeletal proportions. The hips do not lie either. And therefore the q angles also impact the knees.

As a person with poor long vision, I can correctly sex people despite what they are wearing just by seeing them walk or run.

Male people seem like able to do this. And it is sometimes impossible with filters, photoshop and filters for images. Female people who change their bodies with testosterone are more difficult to sex in real life. But just because that is true, doesn't mean the male people are difficult to correctly sex at all.

So, if you like to believe in 'stupid conspiracy theories', great. I will trust the science.

Prime example of what I have just been speaking about, it’s not all women it’s some women because most women go by their day-to-day life, and they’re not bothered if somebody is trans-or not, you’re not in the real world, not outside of mums net. You are the one that’s believing in stupid conspiracy theory. The fact that you think you can tell if somebody is trans-or not believe you me there are many trans-women out there that you wouldn’t even have a clue.
there are actual women that have been stopped using the toilet because of women like you claiming they are trans when they are not.
it is a fucking obsession it really is because quite frankly I don’t give a shit if somebody’s trans india willoughby for example looks like liz truss . If what you r saying is true why do women as well as men think Michelle Obama is a man to. I see many examples on Twitter

Yes remember her Spitting Image puppet wore a man’s suit

I think it's this one:
https://www.itv.com/news/central/2021-11-23/internet-troll-jailed-after-tormenting-danniella-westbrook-and-her-fan-online

For someone accusing others of being “fucking obsessed with trans people”, it’s notable that @Daltonbear1 is the person bringing them into the conversation.

Strong, assertive women get accused of being men because in a patriarchy only men are strong and powerful leaders. If a woman is strong rather than submissive, assertive rather than conciliatory, outperforms blokes in their sphere, she must therefore be accused of being a man. If she doesn’t conform to the male gaze standards of femininity, the accusations double down.

A propos Margaret Thatcher, I remember Francois Mitterrand saying “she has the eyes of Caligula and the mouth of Marilyn Monroe”

“If what you r saying is true why do women as well as men think Michelle Obama is a man to. I see many examples on Twitter”

For a start, people are not using real life meetings with Michelle Obama to base those judgments on. The reasons they are also making these spurious claims has been well discussed already in this thread.

The people doing so are not doing so from any knowledgeable position and often for some kind of political gain. That you think those treating Michelle Obama this way have anything in common with women stating that they can correctly sex a male person so that male person should not be in female single sex spaces is absurd.

But you are the one doing it.

Also just because others are interested in campaigning to preserve the needs of female people, doesn’t give you the right to denigrate them.

Obviously, it makes you feel great to do so, so do continue. It makes it clear though that you have nothing but mantra like phrases to support what you say. And those reading along can see that and can see your mischaracterisations of the points people make to support your prejudiced view about women who have different views to you.

“it’s not all women it’s some women because most women go by their day-to-day life, and they’re not bothered if somebody is trans-or not, you’re not in the real world”.

How remarkable. You must live a very privileged life if you cannot think of any reason why female people need single sex spaces in their everyday lives. Or that female people don’t need to know what sex their care giver or health care professional is. Or for their child or their family member for safeguarding confidence.

Good for you. I am very glad you have that privileged life. Because the alternative to that is that you simply lack empathy for the female people who do have those needs. Which is it?

What annoys me is that nutty comments on X or wherever are given credence by supposed journalists /tv preventers etc as if there is actually something to discuss and debate.
Just ignore Fgs

What, like the Algerian boxer that bloody JK Rowling is obsessed with despite absolutely no credible medical evidence being made public to prove her allegations.

So it’s misogyny when it Michelle Obama but not when it’s an Algerian female boxer who doesn’t conform to female gender stereotypes.

There was a whole fucking thread on Mumsnet about it and how she must be a man - incredible hypocrisy as ever.

It's not surprising to me. At school, the first thing that bullies (of either sex) pick on is their target's gender identity. Boy bullies called the smaller boys "girly", "sissy" etc. Girl bullies called the girls who didn't conform to conventional beauty standards "manly" or "tranny".

Some people never get out of that mindset even as adults.

The point about "masculine" insults historically aimed at Black women is also important (as well as Michelle Obama and the Williams sisters, I remember the R&B singer Ciara getting these insults).

I'm not going to get into a trans bunfight on this thread but that mindset is also the root of all those ridiculous transphobes swearing they can tell a trans woman from a cis woman just by looking at them. Suspecting anyone who doesn't look conventionally feminine of being trans is just an excuse to point fingers at women who don't "perform" gender correctly - butch women, tall women, women who prefer "masculine" clothes - whether they're trans or not.

Again, the two scenarios are not comparable at all.

There were no medical doctors stating that Michelle Obama is a male person. There are now two medical specialists stating that Khelif has chromosomes that are not XY. And there are three medical specialists who have declared that Khelif has testosterone sensitivity meaning that Khelif is male and has gone through male puberty.

And not one of those medical specialists have been shown to be giving false information. It has not even been denied by Khelif or Khelif's team.

So, either you didn't read enough to inform yourself on this issue, despite obviously reading the thread, or you just choose to ignore the reported medical specialist's statements.

That was Exhibit A of how transphobia naturally extended to hounding women who weren't even trans.

It hasn’t been commented on by her medical team because why the fuck should she have to parade her medical information in the public domain.

The Russian led committee that started all of this were discredited also.

It’s just utterly grim hypocrisy.

The boxer didn't just not conform to female stereotypes, she didn't conform to female chromosomes..

ALLEGEDLY

The 'Russian led committee'?

The outcomes of the tests were viewed and accepted by the IBA, WBC and the EBC. The outcomes of the tests were announced by Dr. Ioannis Filippatos, a Greek IVF obstetric / gynacologist who has a sports medicine expertise as well.

I agree that Khelif should not have to give out personal information.

However, Khelif's team did indeed give testimony that another Parisian Endocrinologist also stated that Khelif did not have 'typical female chromosomes'. And reported that Khelif was being treated by an Algerian doctor who was giving Khelif 'testosterone suppression' treatment.

No female athlete has to suppress their testosterone. Only male athletes who have been allowed to access female sports categories.

You can keep trying to twist Khelif's situation as being comparable to Michelle Obamas. However it is not.

It is also not even relevant.

Michelle Obama is not involved in anything that requires her to be female. She is not playing in a female sport's category. She is not providing care where she needs to be female for the needs of the person receiving care.

So, again. Your comparison is irrelevant but also based on misinformation.

I don't think that's true - it was the boxer's own team who said there was a "problem" with her chromosomes wasn't it?

OMG just listen to yourself.

It’s utterly grim speculating about the chromosomes of an athlete in the public domain because you think something. And now you are scraping around to find evidence for it.

This thread is absolutely awful, it really is.

And as to whether Khelif should have to provide personal information.

As Khelif knows very well that they are a male person with a difference of sex development that allows Khelif's body to process testosterone for virilisation, Khelif should actually have the respect for female people and their needs for safety and not be punching female people in a boxing ring.

They should not have to provide personal information. They should actually just have the respect to have withdrawn from the Olympics and any other female boxing event. No need at all to make public why.

However, they chose to not do that .

SHE

It's not surprising to me.
So you wouldn't be surprised to hear of a black person using foul racist language about other black people?

At school, the first thing that bullies (of either sex) pick on is their target's gender identity. Boy bullies called the smaller boys "girly", "sissy" etc. Girl bullies called the girls who didn't conform to conventional beauty standards "manly" or "tranny".

Boys aren't picking on someone's 'gender identity'; they're being misogynist. They view girls as weak so see it as an insult to call another boy a girl, hence 'cissy'.

I've never known girls to call other girls manly or trans but I'm sure anything is possible. I've been called a butch dyke a few times as an insult by men but never trans.

Yes, I believe you tried this on the other threads as well.

I think what is 'grim' and 'absolutely awful' is supporting a male boxer to punch female boxers in the face, or actually, anywhere.

No one is 'scraping' around for evidence. It is all out there in the public domain.

But do, please continue to denigrate people who disagree with you own blinkered view that supports male people punching female people in the face. Well done you!

I haven’t been on or commented on any other threads so stop making stuff up about me too.

You have zero evidence for your claims apart from some stuff you have read in the media. You haven’t seen her medical records - it’s all based on speculation.

And it’s utterly grim.