..To be mortified at the treatment of rape victims at the Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre?

[TorghunKhan]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clynyky7kj9o

No women only spaces for 16 months. Basically women, RAPED women - were told they could not definitely see a woman to help them with such an awful crime, they might have to see a man in a dress, and if they objected they were to be 're eductaed' by the man in charge - a man who himself applied for, and got!! a job which was supposed to be only filled by a woman.

It's shameful, disgusting, but whats worse is how many people put up with it!! Who thought this was ok?! why did nobody do anything, or say anything FOR YEARS

I agree with your observation about women fighting each other. I think this happens a lot when people and institutions in positions of power inflict misogynist blows. It really saddens me. I feel it's not an accident either. Women divided have less power.

However I don't agree with tone policing women here for fighting for their rights.

I'm a survivor of rape. To know that some other women truly believe I ought to share intimate spaces with males makes me feel absolute anguish. Like one has been cast out rather than receiving the expected solidarity. Maybe it's just too hard for some women to accept another woman would wish this upon them?

I read posts here sometimes that totally disregard the trauma that other women lay bare. To be raped is to be disregarded, dehumanised, treated as an object. Being told your body needs to be present in certain spaces to make a male feel good about themselves is retraumatising because it is that same disregard all over again.

Don't forget most raped women don't get a court case and even less a conviction. We get dismissal, disbelief and a lifetime of shame, self blame and self limitations. I think blunt speaking in this one female dominated corner of the planet is to be expected.

There's no point with wikipedia, as soon as women put anything up it's undone by men. There are no standards and no integrity and it's a waste of women's time.

You only have to see the KJK page - despite the fact she self IDs as a woman's rights activist apparently she can't self ID and is branded anti-trans. Self Id is only for the blokes it seems.

Once it's on the talk pages, you can appeal to other senior wikipedia editors who, captured or not, put their reputation as impartial librarians above political stances, the talk page discussions are never removed, and they serve to build the main pages properly

They won't be able to ignore the fact that Wadhwa has gone.

OK, good luck with that. I'm sure you can resolve the VPN issue. I'm afraid I personally don't think this is a good use of my time. Each woman can put her efforts where she's feels is best.

@SleeplessInWherever

If you read their posts, they said quite clearly that they didn't have time to campaign for change and expected to be prioritised in a female rape center, despite stats showing men already have better access to support after rape and more options for support after rape.

They also said The system we have in our area is they are under 1 roof, my son had more important things to process than campaigning for male rights after his rape despite it being pointed out again that rape support centres came about because of women being raped and setting up these services to support women. It's a super example of minimising a womans experience and a good example of male privilege. They refuse to do the donkey work but expect the very best of the service.

I refer to them as they as whilst they are posing as female, I'm assuming they are male after their post where they said I can post where I like. As I said women’s rights appear on every other thread which to me just highlights how disingenuous they are and the real reason for their posts was because they feel women's rights feature too heavily on here. How can a woman feel this way?

And one thing about your post which really annoyed me is this

I do think, however, that when women disagree with a conversation about women’s issues, they’re very quick to either be called male, or be told they’re fawning handmaidens etc etc. The woman that disagree with female issues and pepper their posts with "not all men" "women are just as bad" and "but what about my son missing out" etc are NOT on the side of women. They are either defending men or are men so they need to be called what they are.

I don’t think that’s necessary, or helpful to having a reasonable conversation. I think it brings a hostility to it that isn’t necessary, and women just end up fighting each other. Interesting how you expect women to all rub along together because they are women. You thinking this is your upholding the patriarchy by insisting all women must be well behaved and not cause trouble in the ranks. It's staggering that you've come on to a discussion about an issue that directly affects women and rather than contributing to that, have attempted to pull up posters who you feel are hostile towards someone who is ignoring the erosion of women's rights. Why are you not more outraged at how women are being treated by men and other women who choose to support men?

Honestly, I don’t really understand why. Does everyone who disagrees/makes a different point have to have a penis, or could they just be a woman with a different view do you hand on heart, think this was an appropriate post to start on how men aren't treated fairly after a rape? Do you hand on heart believe that? If a woman believes men are disadvantaged and chooses to air this to make their point, on an issue that directly affects women, why can't anyone point this out? Why, again, as women, are we expected to keel quiet and not question anything that adds to the oppression of women?

Male apologists and hand maidens is what they are. The patriarchy is strong enough and big enough and mysoginistic behaviour is deeply ingrained in it, in society and in many women that we need to fight it. You don't need to do that for the patriarchy, you really don't.

And please, stop trying to say how women should behave and should be accepting of other women, despite their inflammatory behaviour.

So glad to see this topic finally break into the main stream.

MW - for new Stonewall CEO? Isn't the current person a temp hire?

I've read the whole thread now and, honestly, I think it best to grey rock the derailers at this point. They've been engaged with in good faith and empathy, I don't see the same reflected back.

I wonder if Women's Aid will change their policies now? I know the staff have been hamstrung by "inclusivity" at the expense of the women they were set up to support.

it's going to be interesting to see how the vacancy is a) advertised and b) filled

MW is quite ambitious, was going into politics a few years ago but that didn't work out. Not going to want to fade into obscurity.

Honestly, I don’t really understand why. Does everyone who disagrees/makes a different point have to have a penis, or could they just be a woman with a different view.

I've been accused of being a male troll because I didn't agree with something in the Feminism forum. I was recently accused of posting in 'bad faith' (not toeing the party line).

www.ercc.scot/statement-from-edinburgh-rape-crisis-centre-board-of-directors/

State of this! Makes it sound like Mridul is the one making the choices here! No! He should have been fired!

All of them need to go, the directors of Edinburgh and the directors of Scottish Rape Crisis who presided over this for the last few years need to be held accountable.

I've posted this sentiment before, but the whole TRA debacle has me convinced that the more academic education a person has, the more likely they are to believe stupid and illogical things.

Bumping my post again to post this debunking of many of the claims of the Open Democracy article. Surprise surprise the author is a misogynistic TRA Scottish Green Party member.

wingsoverscotland.com/adam-ramsay-is-definitely-a-liar/

The author of the OD piece is a TRA, not Wings Over Scotland.

So what did you do? What are you doing?

I'm limited physically by disability and financially so I can't go to rallies / KJK events.

I do what I can.

And Frankly if you think JKR should have don more what did you expect her to do?

True in a way. They are terrified of being seen as bigoted. So openminded their brains fall out.

Also a lot of women I know think that they if they advocate for safe spaces, they are advocating for transwomen to be treated badly and discriminated against.
They can't see nuance. You can say that Eddie Izzard can dress any way he wants and change his name to Suzy, and yet not want him or other men to be in a rape crisis centre.

I'm in and organise a local support group. I am one of the anonymous interviews on Julie in Genderland, I put this question up, partly to galvanise women into taking action, I wrote to my old MP, to my new MP, to the new head of the womens thing in parliament, I protest on twitter, I send complaints to the BBC, to Primark and to anywhere else, I try to get Wikipedia changed, - I do a frak of a lot TBH

How about you?

Well done @TorghunKhan fantastic work.

I genuinely don't believe that poster is a female, or that such a son exists. Its a male MRA/incel getting off on upsetting women.

The level and standard of support for women is to be told that they have to accept being supported by a male. Many will then go on to have a significant mental health crisis due to the 'care' they received, this will often be diagnosed as EUPD (very similar symptoms to PTSD but wildly different empathy for sufferers) they will go on to receive further low standard mental health care. Because of their diagnosis they may not be believed in any DV reports.

By that standard the bar is very low. If your sons only complaint is a scheduling issue I'd say he's getting a much higher standard of care than women.

I am so sorry for what your son has gone through. I hope that he or you feel able to campaign for meaningful change for male rapeseed victims. Please don't campaign to reduce the shitty support that women currently receive. That isn't a win for anyone.

Sounds like he (that particular poster) has been doing the rounds of any thread about rape or abuse of women.

Very little of the whole trans debacle has anything to do with men wanting to be considered women. It's all about having the power to dominate and bully and that's the same for their female handmaidens. Having power over others makes them feel good.

These trans women likely failed to succeed or dominate in our, still, highly male centered society. But discovered that by wearing a dress and faking period pains they could bully and manipulate an awful lot of people, and they really liked that.

Calling the act of correctly sexing a male person 'hateful' is trying to shame others for not complying with your own choices around language. And it is also highly relevant when discussing the actions of this individual, Wadwha.

And if you seek to shame any person on this thread for correctly sexing this male person, one who has now shown the world just how harmful such an ideological view can be when laws are formed where 'gender' is placed at the same priority to sex, please understand that no one has to comply to your philosophical belief. No one. Not one of us.

And we have recently been shown just how meaningless the language that some people demand is and how it IS based on philosophical belief. Why?

Because to be a person with a transgender identity is not based on having gender dysphoria. We have been told this now by professional academics as well as trans people themselves. There is only a rare group that may have gender dysphoria at all.

Therefore, the only commonality for people with transgender identities is that their philosophical belief.

Meaning no one needs to comply with another persons philosophical belief. No matter how kind or respectful that person who is trying to shame you into complying tells you that it is to use the preferred language, it is someone who is demanding that you support their own philosophical belief.

You are totally free to choose to base your own language on using the sometimes centuries old established meanings of words and the established protocols of language that are based around sex. Not someone's identity. Or you can choose to base your own language around someone's identity.

But you don't get to shame those who choose differently.

In addition, the situation with the male boxers has shown us that the word 'cis' is also meaningless, and always was, and based on someone's philosophical belief.

In fact, because we were reminded that 'cis' means any person 'assigned' female at birth, this also includes those male people who have been incorrectly registered as female. And I am talking about the male people who have differences of sex development where their bodies are capable of processing the testosterone that their testes produce.

What this means is that there is now no words to describe a unique group of female people that reliably means just those female people, either pre or post puberty, who have bodies that are female sexed.

Cis is a meaningless word.

Using preferred language around describing someone is based on someone else's demand to believe in their philosophical belief. It is purely up to you.

What you don't get to do, is to shame others for not supporting your belief if they do not choose to.

Oh well. How could it work out when a male CEO of a Rape Crisis Centre has a political tantrum about an amendment to a bill to allow female people (and male) to choose if they want a same sex medical examiner to conduct rape examinations.

I mean, that alone should have sent ERCC board members a very clear message. But it didn't.

That Wadwha left one political party because they supported the amendment to go to another political party says everything that you also need to know about the party Wadwha joined.

Seriously, a CEO of a RCC that demanded that rape victims should accept a male who said they were female as a medical examiner to conduct after rape assessment is a huge red flag. Male or female.

That this person also expressed interest in whether female people orgasm during rape or not, and seems fascinated by this, and told female rape victims publicly they had to reframe their trauma to accept male people who believe they are female in single sex provisions had a series of red flags that should have been shining like a fucking beacon.

Two months into the job, Wadhwa said:

Sexual violence happens to bigoted people as well… If you bring unacceptable beliefs that are discriminatory in nature [into the centre], we will begin to work with you on your journey of recovery from trauma. But please also expect to be challenged on your prejudices… If you have to reframe your trauma, I think it is important as part of that reframing… you also have to rethink your relationship with prejudice. Otherwise, you can’t really, in my view, recover from trauma, and I think that’s a very important message that I am often discussing with my colleagues… Because, you know, to me, therapy is political.

By his own admission, he made therapy as a political tool to enforce adherence of women to his ideology. This was deliberate. He was deliberately targetting vulnerable rape victims to spread his political agenda. Two months in. Thats why he wanted the job.

And on this thread we have posters saying:
I'm not really comfortable with referring to a trans woman, who has lived as a woman for many many years, as a man. It seems unnecessarily hateful, and detracts from what otherwise could be valid points being made.

It is very very very much a point of relevance. It is key to why he took the job. To further the political agenda of males like him. Not to centre women. He said therapy is political - he was actively targeting the therapy of raped women.

Not once during his tenure at ERCC did Wadhwa centre women. Its strategy document mentioned women ONCE. ONCE. This is a rape crisis charity. Reminding everyone that 94% of rape victims are female according to police Scotland in this context.

I have made a long list of the acts of sexism which worked against the rights of women - both service users and employees during Wadhwa's tenure.
You can read it in a post here at 11:56am:
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5163926-surely-mridul-wadhwa-has-to-go-now-report-into-ercc-out?page=9&reply=138256811

I am not hateful. This man is.