Do some mums just not like working?

[Dragontooth]

I know this sounds awful, and judgey but I'm trying to understand. I am not a benefit basher and I used to be on benefits, also a single parent.
I'm on a lot of 'being skint' forums, I was on UC but now I have quite a lot of experience in various things so I like to try to help.
There are a number of mums who were previously on legacy benefits who are terrified by UC and the work search appointments. Lots who are unemployed and some who do very part time jobs, 10 hours or less.
I don't understand why they are so resistant to finding work or better paid work. Having been on benefits, it is a horrible existence. I was paid £850 per month. Clearly it would only take a MW part time job to make me so much better off. And they pay for childcare/ holiday club.
It literally changes your life. You can pay for things to have a better, easier life like driving lessons. Not only that but you are back in the work place so it's not such a shock when your children leave home.
I feel these women are so anxious, they can't see how their lives could look with more money/ options. Not only that but a lot of them have their heads in the sand about retirement, will we even get a state pension? Then there's the fact that it's so much harder getting back into employment after five or ten years out, I think that's what UC wants to avoid. I'm not saying it's a kind or person centred system but in reality is taking years out of the workplace really in these women's best interests either?
Disability/ disabled children obviously excluded.

Yes. The number of economically inactive young adults is growing. I am scared for the future of my young adult kids at uni who want to work and who will work. They and their peers will be carrying the tax burden for so many.

And I also have a ‘chronic health condition’ and am under specialist neurological care. I could easily get signed off. But sheer bloody mindedness/willpower/pride keeps me working full time. And it’s important for me to not depend on my husband or the state for money.

I think Starbucks has rules about that

Ex SIL has 9 kids, always said she would never work, had the kids so she didn't have to, to 7 dads can I add, used to laugh about what she could afford, take aways 3/4 nights a week, nights out every weekend, always in the pub

I know loads of people who are on benefits for genuine reasons but I also know about the same amount who are single parents and use the system and have no intention of working and have kids running round in designer clothes and trainers/shoes (and not the designer ones off facebook 😂) and TBH it makes me F'ckin furious.

I personally have always worked, I was a single mum for a long time and still worked full time with 2 kids - I didn't know not working was an option back then, it was never easy but my kids saw me get up and go out and earn a living even when it was a bad day/week. Now they know that they go out to work to earn money and buy nice things, and have self respect.

I think you are basically right, although it’s some people who don’t want to work, rather than mothers in particular.

Mothers (or primary carer parents) do have a lot of challenges with logistics and work though, and you are right that if you are anxious and lacking in confidence and skills you are going to find all that very offputting, so more support is probably needed.

@Dragontooth Have you thought about getting on the board of a charity that helps women with work? Like smart works etc. Because you have a lot to offer and it would be less frustrating for you.

Yes, I agree with this. There must also be a big influence from your upbringing here - because it never occurred to me not to work.

I knew that my DM and MIL had not worked outside the home when their DC were preschoolers, but they both did some paid work at home and/or did night school to train up, and then they both worked full time when DH and I were at high school. We looked after our DBs for the hour or so until they got home. I had friends with SAHMs but not many - most had mums that worked, many full time.

Some of the posts on here are right out of the Daily Mail.
I know quite a few people on benefits, none of them are running round in brand new designer clothes, I bet these imaginary claimants have 50" TVs and the kids all have the latest iPhone too 🙄

And almost all of my mates only had one sibling. Families with 3 DC were rare; 4 was almost unheard of.

Far more of my DSs’ friends are from larger families - if you keep having DC then it is obviously going to be more challenging to afford and organise reliable childcare.

But it is a choice. We are humans, not rabbits.

I think people would like working if they were treated better and paid a proper wage for a days work. I think people would work if they felt the benefits - better money, social contact, companies that care about their employees, regular work and respect.

The gap between benefits and working needs to be larger, it needs to be very uncomfortable living on benefits. Controversial I know but there needs to be a different approach to those with physical health conditions and those who have mental health. We ALL have mental health that needs support at times but it's now used as an excuse to reason why people can't work. Because it can't be seen it's hard to diagnose properly and people seem to be scared to question it. Sitting at home with no money is one of the worse things for your mental abdominal physical health.

How about instead of making the gap bigger between benefits and working by making it even more uncomfortable to live on benefits, increase wages to make working more worthwhile! Minimum wage workers are treated almost as much as scum as benefits claimants and that should change.

OP you're spot on about people relying on their DC disability benefits. My friend helps teens with learning difficulties to progress to independence, parents are often happy to send the DC to the college but not happy to agree they have progressed. They want them at home and the money paid to them.

They have no intentions of working. They are subsidised not to bother.

Like I said, I didn't start this thread to open the floodgates on benefits in general. It if not a life of Riley on benefits. That simply isn't true.
I do think there are exceptions to the rule too. One of my ex schoolmates, whole history of trauma, former addict, mum of four. They keep trying to get her into work, and pay 100% of her childcare. She gets sacked as she can't do it, cycle repeats. This lady is not the quickest at learning new skills, nor is she great with planning, organisation etc. I don't understand why the state just don't let her stay home and be a mom to those four kids. She's probably a much better mum than I am. Why are we forcing her into work (at the cost of childcare x4) for the tax she would pay on her earnings?

Most of them would go to work if the free money stopped.

"Yes, I agree with this. There must also be a big influence from your upbringing here - because it never occurred to me not to work."

I don't think so. My Mum worked her fingers to the bone, had a tiny amount of time enjoying her retirement and now she's working her fingers to the bone, wrecking her health again looking after my disabled dad.
That's no life to aspire too. She's never had time for hobbies or enjoying herself. That's the reality of lower paid jobs. But higher paid jobs come with different stresses and issues.

As for the person who mentioned chronic health conditions. Families are so fractured now, it's so difficult to get support if you need it. I moved away from my family for a "better" life, but had no support with my children- a lot of people touting their work effort are doing so on the back of relatives providing free childcare. I've got health problems and was fired from one job because the school were constantly calling me to pick up my disabled DS. I had no one to call on for help. My mum is struggling with caring for my Dad, I am sick with anxiety about them both, but I am stuck many miles away.
People have encouraged upward mobility in their children, but I'm not convinced in the long run that it is beneficial. Yes, you can afford the nice things - but are those things really important?

Really it would be better for families to be able to survive on one wage (and that doesn't have to be the woman at home) or even better for both parents to be able to work part time.
Universal wage replacing most benefits is an interesting concept too.

@KimberleyClark to have children is obviously a choice but it's not a "lifestyle" choice.

And yes, we are animals - mammals to be precise. Just like rabbits, except we have a welfare state supported by the taxpayer.
No children, no future taxpayer- so not analogous to a lifestyle choice. It's not choosing to live in a city or backpacking around Europe.

Oh yes I forgot- there were no schools and no food on the shelves in the 70’s when most mums were home to look after children. Miracle we are all here really.

@Notmynamerightnow it would be better for families to survive on one wage....
If that wage wasn't always the father's, and if the mother wasn't put into a vulnerable position by stopping work.
Unfortunately neither are the case.
Yes there are some stay at home dads but we can all acknowledge that these are the majority.
I would look to a system like Sweden where there is an incentive for fathers to have some paternity leave. I think women getting back to work, safe in the knowledge that their baby would be with their other parent, would be a huge factor in reducing pay and workplace inequality.
As would greater recognition that men need reasonable adjustments and flexible working too. There needs to be awareness! How many times do posters say 'my DH can't do any pick ups?' Is that always true?
In terms of support network, people are also scared to ask. We have a great reciprocal group of school parents who all help each other out, even my kid who has SEN. It works really well and no one (well hardly any one) takes the piss.

@Fleeceyhat If you contact your local college they will be able to help you — they will also run basic education courses (or if they don’t they will know which local college does) that will get you up to the level you need for GCSEs or whatever qualifications you want to do.

You wouldn’t have to pay for these.

More general info here

https://educationhub.blog.gov.uk/2024/01/04/free-courses-and-qualification-for-adults-to-boost-their-skills/

Your local CAB or job centre will be able to help if you have trouble finding local providers.

A lot of luck is made. We all have choices. Some more than others agreed but we all have choices. And choices have consequences good and bad.

@DurbevillesGirl apologies it wasn't clear but that's what I meant. The amount people are paid should be directly linked to what it costs to live. The NNW is a joke. Fair days pay for a fair days work.

People are under the illusion that without their tax the country will collapse or they are not contributing. I don't think people realise the reality of the tax and welfare system.
I can't remember the exact figures but it is something like earnings of £45k+ before the government makes a profit on you. Most people are deluding themselves if this is their reason for working.

The highest earners and big companies are shoring up the country, their profits are increasing on the backs of low paid workers. The government is subsiding those low paid workers and in doing so it's contributing to the profits of their employers. We are then using those wages to buy the crap that these companies are producing. It's like some crazy multi level marketing scam.

Yeah it's 3 years in Scotland at the moment (except in certain limited circumstances when you can get funded hours from 2) but totally get what you're saying. The cost of nursery is horrific compared to after school etc. I really hope that when all my children are in school and I can explore different options for my health conditions than I can currently, that I can get back to work!

Excuse me I take nothing from the state. Don't you dare call me a hypocrite. I pay for everything. Prescriptions, dental, eye tests.

How rude of you.

I think it is lethargy, laziness and ‘just because they can’.

@Dragontooth - so are you saying that the state should just let people have lots of kids and then stay at home? Are you asking us all to fund that? She is a good example of why the 2 child cap should stay.