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Do some mums just not like working?

1000 replies

Dragontooth · 10/09/2024 21:03

I know this sounds awful, and judgey but I'm trying to understand. I am not a benefit basher and I used to be on benefits, also a single parent.
I'm on a lot of 'being skint' forums, I was on UC but now I have quite a lot of experience in various things so I like to try to help.
There are a number of mums who were previously on legacy benefits who are terrified by UC and the work search appointments. Lots who are unemployed and some who do very part time jobs, 10 hours or less.
I don't understand why they are so resistant to finding work or better paid work. Having been on benefits, it is a horrible existence. I was paid £850 per month. Clearly it would only take a MW part time job to make me so much better off. And they pay for childcare/ holiday club.
It literally changes your life. You can pay for things to have a better, easier life like driving lessons. Not only that but you are back in the work place so it's not such a shock when your children leave home.
I feel these women are so anxious, they can't see how their lives could look with more money/ options. Not only that but a lot of them have their heads in the sand about retirement, will we even get a state pension? Then there's the fact that it's so much harder getting back into employment after five or ten years out, I think that's what UC wants to avoid. I'm not saying it's a kind or person centred system but in reality is taking years out of the workplace really in these women's best interests either?
Disability/ disabled children obviously excluded.

OP posts:
nextdoornightmares · 11/09/2024 08:00

JustMarriedBecca · 11/09/2024 07:11

I completely agree. That's my point.

But it doesn't explain people who are on UC using childcare as an excuse.

It does when you have more than one child in childcare and UC only pay up to a maximum of £1739 for 2 children or more or even if you have one child at a maximum of £1014. When a full time place costs on average £1300 per month. And the childcare element, like all the others, isn't exempt from deductions for wages so you can really only work for minimum wage but then you can't afford the discrepancy between what the childcare costs and what UC give you for it. Oh and you don't qualify for any funded hours until they are 3 years old.

Dragontooth · 11/09/2024 08:00

@Debtfreegoals it's the opposite of sexist, I really worry for these women. One woman was panicking that, as her daughter was turning 18, her daughter's disability benefits were going to go directly to her and after the switch to UC she was going to be £1000 worse off. Just paying people the equivalent of full time wages to stay at home is not doing women any favours. Obviously it's going to be a big shock when your children grow up and you're left with £700 or whatever. After 18 years out the work place are these women really skilled, confident, ready to go back to work?
Very often these women have anxiety/ depression as a result of being SAHPs. It's not a good place to be, mentally. The fear of sanctions, the judgement and the fact that it just isn't enough money.
Also vulnerable to having to stay in shit marriages, or abusive marriages, live in substandard accommodation and risk becoming deskilled. How many easily find well paid, rewarding jobs when their children turn 18?
I don't want a world where only one gender worked. We tried that. It was shit and women were chattel. We got abused a lot more too. No freedom. No rights.

OP posts:
DragonGypsyDoris · 11/09/2024 08:01

Fleeceyhat · 10/09/2024 21:08

I don’t work because of my own health difficulties and trying to manage a large family. It would stress me out because it would overwhelm me and would then affect my parenting so I dont Work in order to manage and pace my life to avoid autistic burnout

If your household is financially self-sufficient, then your decision is fine by me. But if you have decided not to work as some sort of lifestyle and health benefit choice, when why should taxpayers 'pay' you to bring up your family? We should all live within our means.

Beezknees · 11/09/2024 08:03

Dragontooth · 11/09/2024 08:00

@Debtfreegoals it's the opposite of sexist, I really worry for these women. One woman was panicking that, as her daughter was turning 18, her daughter's disability benefits were going to go directly to her and after the switch to UC she was going to be £1000 worse off. Just paying people the equivalent of full time wages to stay at home is not doing women any favours. Obviously it's going to be a big shock when your children grow up and you're left with £700 or whatever. After 18 years out the work place are these women really skilled, confident, ready to go back to work?
Very often these women have anxiety/ depression as a result of being SAHPs. It's not a good place to be, mentally. The fear of sanctions, the judgement and the fact that it just isn't enough money.
Also vulnerable to having to stay in shit marriages, or abusive marriages, live in substandard accommodation and risk becoming deskilled. How many easily find well paid, rewarding jobs when their children turn 18?
I don't want a world where only one gender worked. We tried that. It was shit and women were chattel. We got abused a lot more too. No freedom. No rights.

You can't stay at home until your kids are 18! Unless they're a carer for disabled kids which you mentioned.

AngelinaFibres · 11/09/2024 08:04

My mum is 85 and stayed at home with us until my youngest brother was 11. She will never get her head around people having children and then handing hours and hours and hours of the care of those children ( particularly when they're very small) to people who barely passed an exam. If you have a fabulous job that you absolutely love I can see why you wouldn't want to let go of it . Many, many women are doing crappy jobs for crappy pay. Putting their children in childcare isn't going to lead to a fabulous, shiny career. It's just another layer of stress on women so someone else can tick a box.

Dragontooth · 11/09/2024 08:06

@Beezknees you could on tax credits. Not on UC

OP posts:
IVFmumoftwo · 11/09/2024 08:06

Begaydocrime94 · 11/09/2024 07:59

Obviously understand the logistical complexities of juggling childcare and work, I’m in the same boat. But the system allows people to then keep having kids meaning they can be off work and get paid for it. Meanwhile I’m sat here like a mug thinking about how we’re going to afford a second child.
I truly get why people stay on benefits and honestly in their position I’d do the same, life is about survival and you do what you can. I’m just a little bitter about the whole situation. I’d love to be off work and be able to raise my kids without those added pressures.

How do they get paid for having kids when the two child cap is in place?

Beezknees · 11/09/2024 08:08

Dragontooth · 11/09/2024 08:06

@Beezknees you could on tax credits. Not on UC

That's not true either, you had to work at least 16 hours on tax credits when your child turned 5. I was on them myself back in the day.

Flowery57 · 11/09/2024 08:09

Why do do many people in this country suddenly have ‘chronic health problems’ so they are ‘unable to work’? Very depressing and just one reason why sadly this country is on a downward spiral.

Debtfreegoals · 11/09/2024 08:10

Dragontooth · 11/09/2024 08:00

@Debtfreegoals it's the opposite of sexist, I really worry for these women. One woman was panicking that, as her daughter was turning 18, her daughter's disability benefits were going to go directly to her and after the switch to UC she was going to be £1000 worse off. Just paying people the equivalent of full time wages to stay at home is not doing women any favours. Obviously it's going to be a big shock when your children grow up and you're left with £700 or whatever. After 18 years out the work place are these women really skilled, confident, ready to go back to work?
Very often these women have anxiety/ depression as a result of being SAHPs. It's not a good place to be, mentally. The fear of sanctions, the judgement and the fact that it just isn't enough money.
Also vulnerable to having to stay in shit marriages, or abusive marriages, live in substandard accommodation and risk becoming deskilled. How many easily find well paid, rewarding jobs when their children turn 18?
I don't want a world where only one gender worked. We tried that. It was shit and women were chattel. We got abused a lot more too. No freedom. No rights.

That’s fine, it’s my opinion and I won’t change it. After reading a lot of the replies, I do think it has a lot of awful and sexist responses. I think you want the best for women truly but I think it’s just not black and white. It’s very hard to try and find jobs within school hours. A lot of minimum paid jobs that require no skills require weekend working which can be difficult to get childcare for especially if you’re a single parent.

There’s a stigma around work searches through job centres and my previous job worked with mostly women getting qualifications later in life when on work searches. The courses helped give those with no confidence find routine to their lives and ultimately entering the work force. So I don’t agree that there’s no life for those looking for work after their children turn 18. It’s a very bleak outlook and not helping OP.

Beezknees · 11/09/2024 08:10

Flowery57 · 11/09/2024 08:09

Why do do many people in this country suddenly have ‘chronic health problems’ so they are ‘unable to work’? Very depressing and just one reason why sadly this country is on a downward spiral.

Covid. Massive NHS waiting lists. Lack of mental health care.

Wineandcupcakes · 11/09/2024 08:13

think we seem to forget that looking after small children is hard work too and a very important job in itself

it is not a job when it’s your own. There is no way round this. And no matter how many people pretend it is a job it is not. Having children is a choice. Staying home to look after them and either being paid for by a partner or the state is a choice.

many of us here are parents, trying to pretend it’s a job and we all can’t fathom that is ridiculous. It’s a choice. Again excluding disability and I can’t beleive we all need to keep puttting that over rider on there.

socks1107 · 11/09/2024 08:13

I do know of two mums like this, my dh ex wife and a 'friend' although her attitude to work now has left me pulling away from her.
Neither work, neither have worked in 20 and 19 years. They are both de skilled and haven't a clue how to manage a job. The benefits system ( legacy benefits) have supported them both in this choice and now in their late 40s for one and late 50s reality is hitting but still they do everything they can not to work.
They don't want to work at all and it's been a choice that should never have been there for either of them.

RosesAndHellebores · 11/09/2024 08:15

I think it was @mathanxiety who said that many (nurses/teachers/lecturers) work 16 hours a week because the alternative is cooking, cleaning, shopping, caring for elderly relatives, etc.

For the record, my mother, step and MIL, (late 80s) all now get attendance allowance which is not means tested. It's £68 pp per week, MIL gets the higher rate (Parkinsons and partially sighted now). That goes towards taxis to appointments, cleaning and for MIL DH also pays for a carer to go in once at day. Likely to be upped. For both households we now organise shopping to be delivered via the big supermarkets - It's very easy to organise and there is nobody else to help us care or ensure care is given.

The notable thing is that od all the people who help:

The cleaners are eastern European
The carers are Asian
(All first gen arrivals to the UK)

At home, since 1999 my cleaners have been Polish, Bulgarian or Romanian, the gardeners for the last ten years are Portugese.

It's interesting how much work, traditionally done by women is now done by forwigners relatively newly arrived in the UK, and done willingly by women. The traditional male jobs still seem to be done by Englishmen: delivery drivers, odd job man, our decorator, etc.

I'd be interested to know if any social research had been done in relation to this as these are all jobs that can be done flexibly and are reasonably paid. The cleaners for example get £15ph in the SE; £13ph in the NE.

This is also reflected at work where all of our cleaning staff are foreign, as are our catering staff, albeit with the right to work.

How people can complain about immigration when we have a society that allows the indigenous or well settled populations to avoid work, I simply don't understand.

Beezknees · 11/09/2024 08:15

socks1107 · 11/09/2024 08:13

I do know of two mums like this, my dh ex wife and a 'friend' although her attitude to work now has left me pulling away from her.
Neither work, neither have worked in 20 and 19 years. They are both de skilled and haven't a clue how to manage a job. The benefits system ( legacy benefits) have supported them both in this choice and now in their late 40s for one and late 50s reality is hitting but still they do everything they can not to work.
They don't want to work at all and it's been a choice that should never have been there for either of them.

Legacy benefits don't support you in not working. You don't have to work much, but you do have to work. It's 16 hours up until your child is 12, then they ask you to increase your hours.

PattyDuckface · 11/09/2024 08:18

@SouthLondonMum22 no, it's not a lifestyle choice. We are animals, we procreate and continue the species, if we don't have children there will be no future for us, and no taxpayers either.

Who pay the taxes that pay for our care system, our healthcare, our school system? The current workforce do, so if people don't have children then there will be no future workforce to pay those taxes.

A "lifestyle choice" is such a terrible way to denigrate having children. Profoundly anti-human.

socks1107 · 11/09/2024 08:19

Beezkneez I can assure you neither has worked for over 19 years and are supported by benefits. How I don't know then.
And it hasn't really worked out for their now young adults either as one has two young adults that have never worked and have no drive to look for work and the other has one the same. Their children see no role model in working so aren't and that's the worst bit that perfectly capable 18 and 20 year olds sit indoors all day and have no drive for anything

Vettrianofan · 11/09/2024 08:21

blueshoes · 10/09/2024 22:56

Studies (I believe this is a US one) show that for children growing up at the same level of poverty, the % of children of such families who go onto to College/Tertiary education is much higher amongst those parents who are working parents, rather than those who are not in work.

Do not underestimate the poor role model that is set by parents who do not work and the lack of ambition and sense of entitlement it breeds in their children.

Edited

It's not all or nothing. Some parents who are not working are studying instead. Are they not setting a good example to their children?

And then there are those who work and study.

Beezknees · 11/09/2024 08:21

socks1107 · 11/09/2024 08:19

Beezkneez I can assure you neither has worked for over 19 years and are supported by benefits. How I don't know then.
And it hasn't really worked out for their now young adults either as one has two young adults that have never worked and have no drive to look for work and the other has one the same. Their children see no role model in working so aren't and that's the worst bit that perfectly capable 18 and 20 year olds sit indoors all day and have no drive for anything

There must be something else going on with them then.

I've been a claimant for 16 years, of both legacy tax credits and now UC, and not working at all is not an option on either.

Vettrianofan · 11/09/2024 08:23

socks1107 · 11/09/2024 08:19

Beezkneez I can assure you neither has worked for over 19 years and are supported by benefits. How I don't know then.
And it hasn't really worked out for their now young adults either as one has two young adults that have never worked and have no drive to look for work and the other has one the same. Their children see no role model in working so aren't and that's the worst bit that perfectly capable 18 and 20 year olds sit indoors all day and have no drive for anything

There's a young woman in my street like this. She had a baby at 16, but her DS got taken off her by SS as she didn't care for him properly. She's never worked a day in her life. She's in her early 20s now. She can't be bothered.

LightOnInTheGarden · 11/09/2024 08:26

Ohhbaby · 11/09/2024 06:13

Not really, you're thinking of victorian times, where there were factories etc where the women also went to work. If you think farther back most homes were more cottage industries, so mum sat and weaved at home or assisted husband as a blacksmith or the society was agragarion so the worked alongside her husband in the field. (With children underfoot) It was only since the industrial revolution than woman, and more men, left the home and the 'home/cottage industry.

The rich have always had female servants, maids, cooks, housekeepers etc.

Jifmicroliquid · 11/09/2024 08:28

Flowery57 · 11/09/2024 08:09

Why do do many people in this country suddenly have ‘chronic health problems’ so they are ‘unable to work’? Very depressing and just one reason why sadly this country is on a downward spiral.

I feel like this. I work despite chronic health problems. I had a particularly bad day yesterday and felt like death, but I still work full time.

Comedycook · 11/09/2024 08:29

Neurodiversitydoctor · 11/09/2024 07:57

Up at 5 during the week, 6:30 at the weekend, no alcohol during term time - that is how I do it.

I don't drink alcohol. If I routinely got up at 5am, I would be dead on my feet and falling asleep during the day!

JustMarriedBecca · 11/09/2024 08:31

nextdoornightmares · 11/09/2024 08:00

It does when you have more than one child in childcare and UC only pay up to a maximum of £1739 for 2 children or more or even if you have one child at a maximum of £1014. When a full time place costs on average £1300 per month. And the childcare element, like all the others, isn't exempt from deductions for wages so you can really only work for minimum wage but then you can't afford the discrepancy between what the childcare costs and what UC give you for it. Oh and you don't qualify for any funded hours until they are 3 years old.

There's a huge distinction between nursery care and school age care. Nursery provision is poor. The same statistics don't apply for after school and before school care.

So whilst it may make financial sense in some instances to be at home until age 2 (I believe funding is available from 2) then as soon as nursery provision is available, there is no reason in the majority of cases (SEN needs and other exceptions obviously) not to choose to return to work.

LightOnInTheGarden · 11/09/2024 08:35

dairyfairy21 · 10/09/2024 21:17

I don't like working.

So I have Air B&Bs and we outsource everything.

My husband used to work a lot until he sold his company.

Now we don't work, live off our Air B&Bs and we are around for all of our kids.

Living a nice simple life.

I can't imagine working for someone, being told I can't have a day off to watch my child at sports day etc.

X

I can't imagine working for someone, being told I can't have a day off to watch my child at sports day etc.

Do you struggle with imagination generally? You can’t imagine what it’s like to work and have annual leave? I mean, I have never wanted to live off my husband’s earnings but I can certainly imagine what it’s like to do so.

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