Germany has *tightened its borders - *OP requested title tweak

[poppyzbrite4]

Is this the way to go?
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/germany-put-temporary-controls-all-land-borders-source-says-2024-09-09/

There is no evidence in the UK that asylum seekers or immigrants are "causing an increase in crime." In fact, the evidence is that they are more likely to be victims of crime, and the people who "dare imply it" - more likely state it outright are Reform UK and Tommy Robinson fans.

As for Germany, I don't know the statistics. Do you?

So the answer to the international law question is yes, we should ignore laws we don't like. There were millions of displaced people after WWII.

Countries would be a lot safer if Western powers stopped meddling and bombing people.

Those laws were made in a world where the systematic persecution and mass murder of Jewish people including many refugees had just taken place. They knew how devastating and evil persecution on the basis of religion or culture can be.

All too sad that many appear to want this to happen to Muslims now. And those people call themselves patriots. And love to wear poppies, “lest we forget”.

Again, written in a not-loaded way

Do you have a link for such stats?

The dramatic rise in refugees has come about since the West got involved in middle eastern and north african wars.

The destruction of Libya by the French and British especially opened up Libya to criminal trafficking gangs.

Then there is the increase in economic migration, people from Vietnam or Albania, relatively safe countries, certain neither have concentration camps.

Europe cannot continue to accept millions of people from around the globe to try and make their home here & unless more moderate Govt's find away to stop this, then people will vote in far right parties that will.

If so, the law is not fit for purpose and for different times and numbers. Most people in these countries do not want this happening. Honestly the ppl of a country are reasonable for not wanting something and that is not enough for you, not sure what is.

Yes they care more for their country and themselves, what is wrong with that? Change the law, I say.

I have an immigrant parent so I understand but mine was legal, skilled, brought money in, never took anything but pension and never broke the law. Plus no religious or political protestations. Immigrants are NOT interchangeable. We should only allow people in if they are the the sort of immigrants that countries compete to get the privilege of having and then they would be legally migrating.

There's a difference between an immigrant and an asylum seeker. An asylum seeker is vulnerable having fled persecution, an immigrant is someone moving to a country for some reason.

The Refugee Convention was drawn up because of the millions of displaced people after WWII. The amount of asylum seekers or refugees we have in the UK are only a very small percentage of immigrants.

When we were in the EU and part of the Dublin agreement, we didn't have small boats coming over because we could send people back to other countries. We can no longer do that as we've come out of the EU.

Australia has gone the way of ignoring international law, they hold asylum seekers in indefinite detention and push back boats. Picking and choosing which laws to adhere to is a slippery slope.

Germany has been experiencing problems since Merkel welcomed in a million migrants, but again, there's an issue with international law. Austria has said they won't take back rejected asylum seekers and Germany said they don't want to. It leaves people in a no mans land. For those who care about human rights, this is a problem.

When we were in the EU and part of the Dublin agreement, we didn't have small boats coming over because we could send people back to other countries. We can no longer do that as we've come out of the EU.

A point that Labour, with their "we are so over the EU now" worldview, naturally don't want to emphasise. Tories the same, of course.

https://eprints.lse.ac.uk/59323/1/CEP_Bell_Fasani_Machin_Crime-and-immigration_2013.pdf

Given that the article does suggest what you seemed to think it suggested, what are you actually proposing?

You're asking me to solve Germany's current immigration crisis? You first.

For those who care about human rights, this is a problem.

It was obvious from the mass sexual assaults in Cologne in 2015 onwards that feelings of hospitality in Germany would run dry. There have since been a steady stream of Islamist attacks and Solingen seems to have been the final straw.

More and more people are at a point where they wish to put themselves or those they perceive as their fellow countrymen or people with shared cultural values first.

"The number of criminal acts in Germany rose by about 6 percent last year compared to 2022, with authorities attributing the increase to high levels of migration. While foreigners make up about 15 percent of Germany’s population, they accounted for a record 41 percent of all crimes in 2023. Crime that authorities attributed to foreign suspects rose by 23 percent in 2022 and by 18 percent in 2023"
source

Meanwhile, Denmark has gone really strict on immigration and is even limiting movement from Sweden because of their issues with immigration-related crime and violence.
Gun crime in Sweden has gone from almost non-existent to one of the highest in the EU in the last decade.

They are immigrants. Asylum is just a way of getting to stay when you ordinarily would not be allowed. If asylum means you are from a war torn country or other discrimination factors, that’s millions and millions of people that qualify. Of course they are vulnerable and they need to fight for their country and rights.
British ppl fought to be free of feudal lords and civil wars happened, there s no difference apart from a few hundred years.

I don't agree with what Merkel did. I'm not surprised that Germany is experiencing repercussions after letting all those men, from a vastly different culture, into Germany. I saw a documentary on these men , many of whom were sniggering about gender equality. I believe sexual assault has risen as a consequence.

Again, you're conflating immigration with asylum seekers. In order to combat immigration, we need to invest in training in the UK and increase wages. Otherwise we'll carry on importing people. However, we have a low birth rate and not enough natives paying tax - what's your solution?

Going back to human rights, we should help people fleeing persecution. Like I said, it's only a very small percentage of immigration into the country.

Going back to human rights, we should help people fleeing persecution. Like I said, it's only a very small percentage of immigration into the country

No we shouldn't.

The people we help are often the very people who have caused problems in Germany and elsewhere
Someone fleeing genuine persecution, say from Afghanistan, Syria or Iran, may have totally different values when it comes to women and children here, we've seen this with men from SE Asia, we've enough bad people of our own, without importing them, usually with no background checks as its simply not possible.
Look at the poor Kenyan athlete burned to death over a dispute over land? Do we really want people from this sort of culture to come here?

Its time for Africa and the Middle East to help their own, not expect the West with its Christian heritage to do it for them.

Germany may have let in 1m, we've allowed over 160k mainly men to come here via channel crossings.

More recent events have made me change my opinion on this & i think Australia has done the right thing, you can still move there but apply through the correct channels first.

I am a white-skinned foreigner living in Germany.

Firstly, over 10 percent of the population here is foreign. Secondly, there has been a recent study showing that there is, in fact, a higher rate of crime in refugee and asylum-seeker populations. The reasons for this, from what I understand is multi-factorial but mostly due to poverty and alieniation/low integration. There is also a link to organised crime, but I did not read further. I can find the article, if you like.

Thirdly, and this part is anecdotal, in eastern Germany, white-skinned and/or native Germans are definitely more overtly racist than in western Germany. It therefore is unsurprising that the AFD won recently in Thüringen and gained a foothold in Sachsen.

My opinion - I darn well hope that tightening the borders does make people think twice about voting for the far-right. Just came through border control via the Czech Republic the other day and what a faff it was. Germans do not tolerate waiting 😊.

It doesn't.matter what the statistics are. It matters what people believe. If people believe that refugees et al cause problems then they will vote for parties that propose to tighten entry. As we see in Europe. If people believe that refugees stab school girls they will riot.
Politicians need to address the feelings not just the facts. I have not heard Starmer address the feelings behind the UK riots even once. It's as if he thinks he can punish people out of bad behaviour. It doesn't work for children and it doesn't work at a population level either.
At least by tightening border control Germany is addressing how people feel.

I should add, most foreigners now are treated with suspicion. This has been particularly obvious since the Ukraine-Russian war.

In response to the Op, I think Merkel did a fantastic thing. We have the resources and infrastructure here. People complain about it, though, but really, I think it is the duty of such a prosperous country to help. And with regards to Australia, I completely disagree. Australia has a terrible track-record with asylum seekers (being Aussie myself) and I say terrible because of the off-shore processing facilities. Feel free to look it up. It doesn't help that Aussie are often terribly racist, or at least my parents generation openly are.

*edited-spelling corrections

There's not much of a debate to be had with people who don't believe in human rights.

Natural disaster in Ireland? Would be a good example. They would in turn take UK ppl if the same happened. Why do you want to be open to the worlds problems, I don’t.

Greece and Italy closer but still not neighbours. I bet Turkey and Libya would stop ppl coming in to them if they knew they were not moving on to Europe.

Yeah I think the OP is suggesting we become land locked and simply keep an eye on the roads. It's a wonder that no-one has ever thought of it before

That's exactly what I was suggesting. Thank you for articulating it for me.

Don't be so silly. You posted a title that didn't match the article and then asked what we thought.

It was changed a few hours ago.Either contribute to the discussion or move on.

Some refugees/asylum seekers/economic migrants are attracted to Germany for similar reasons they are attracted to the UK - one of the 'rich' countries in Europe which is perceived, and partly has, a quite 'open doors' policy. There is also the misconception that you can get away with only speaking English, and this is only partly true!