Identity Cards: yes or no?

[Papyrophile]

Gerard Darminin, French Home Secretary equivalent, has said that the UK is making itself a migrant target because we have no national officially issued ID card proving entitlement.

I, a very ordinary citizen, already have an NHS number issued at birth, and a National Insurance number sent to me at 16, neither of which has changed. I also have a passport number, due for renewal next year, a driver's license and a Government Gateway number for my occasional exchanges with officialdom.

Why would anyone who has nothing to hide from the authorities prefer not to hold an official proof of identity?

What is the gain from an ID card that isn't available currently? What is its purpose?

I respect when people are clear about that. It's still not very clear what use they'd actually be, however. They wouldn't achieve the things people who support them think they would.

The "thinking" behind them is that everyone who is allowed to be in the UK will have one, and anybody who isn't won't.

Once that's in place we can have a massive dragnet where other people live (because the people who agitate for this have no intention it will every apply to them) to "swoop" (people love a good "swoop") in and round up all those pesky "illegals" to be promptly shipped back to foreign land where they should have stayed.

It's such a simple plan it's amazing no one has ever thought of it before (except other countries, but as we know they aren't as good as the British).

I mean the fact that someone presence in the country can depend on a multitude of intersecting factors is someone elses worry. As is the fact that under such a scheme any mistake in issuing (or not issuing) an ID card could see someone incorrectly sent to foreign land is also someone elses worry.

Also I think Capita, Group4, Serco and Fujitsu are a bit short of cash. So surely it's time we bunged them a few billion to have a crack at this ?

And the Post Office has to have something to do. What better than oversee the implementation of taking details, biometrics and issuing the cards ?

Sadly ID cards won't be introduced due to the views that a significant number of people have about it being an infringement of their freedom, the same is true with regard to increased cameras and use of technology to prevent crime.
I feel my personal freedom is hampered as I can't walk safely in my home town after 7pm at night - if we had greater survilence and increases security then I would be able to. So in terms of freedom ID cards in my view are positive step.

You've still not told us how ID cards are going to help with any of that. If you could actually spell it out convincingly, I expect a lot of the objections would melt away. What you appear to really want is more policing, which is not the same thing at all.

I'd support a curfew for men before ID cards. The. I'd feel safer walking about in the evening...

Sadly ID cards won't be introduced due to the views that a significant number of people have about it being an infringement of their freedom

So the majority of people are too stupid to understand the benefits ? Jeez, it really is like Brexit then.

Of course in the UK they would be more than 12Euros because whoever got the contract would have to make an obscene profit.

if we had greater surveillance and increased security

Those who give up liberty for security will have neither.

I think cost is a real issue - if it were to be like the European ID cards, cost is fairly minimal, and they are useful to have.
The government could not insist that people pay £70 for an ID card - we could be more like the French where you have to posses a valid form of identity document provided by the government, so that can be a passport, a driving licence or an ID card.
I think the benefits are obvious, you can always prove you are who you say you are and you can also prove your address in case it is needed. That can be because you have been in an accident, or the victim of crime as well as the perpetrator.
Having any one of these on you means that you can be easily identified, and if you don't have any one of these, then it is likely you are here through illegal immigration, and are without documents. Migrants arriving through proper channels if only we had them would be given an ID card stating their status on it.

I think the benefits are obvious, you can always prove you are who you say you are and you can also prove your address in case it is needed. That can be because you have been in an accident, or the victim of crime as well as the perpetrator.

So men can go around demanding to see womens ID if they believe they've had a fender bender ? Great idea.. Where do I sign up ?

Last time it was mooted, it was spun as a defence against terrorism. Lots of people pointed out that it would be very expensive, (costs of which were to be pushed onto citizens), and would not actually achieve the stated aims.

I remember all the pressure to introduce the DBS scheme after Soham - even though it was open admitted at the time it would not have prevented Huntley.

And my memory of recent terrorist atrocities is that in each case the perpetrators were known to the security services. So it wasn't a "lack of ID" that let them get away with it.

The moment officialdom lies to get some measure or other through, my hackles rise.

Having any one of these on you means that you can be easily identified, and if you don't have any one of these, then it is likely you are here through illegal immigration, and are without documents. Migrants arriving through proper channels if only we had them would be given an ID card stating their status on it.

Would you envisage visitors to the UK also being given one? Usually when people enter the UK legally as visitors, they're allowed to stay for up to 6 months.

We have Biometric Residence Cards now for people who are coming for longer, although they're being phased out, but it seems like quite an undertaking to give them to everyone who's coming for a fortnight's holiday. Yet those people could just as well be in an accident as any other random person in the UK while they're here. And they wouldn't have an ID card, whereas someone who's illegally using a nicked or borrowed one would.

I don't have anything to hide I just don't need permission to go outside

Its not the ID card on its own that leads to increased safety its the systems, so if people had to present or provide their ID card/or electronic ID card when purchasing train tickets or needed to present this when asked and details were kept on computer then the country would be safer. I would welcome increased monitoring as it would make freerer. The point about men having a curfew which protects women doesn't increase freedom for all - both sexes need to be confident they are protected. Violent crime and theft have increased , people are frightened and the majority of people are law abiding , right now that majority are in fear.

It's more than the systems, it's also the resources to monitor them. Which we quite conspicuously do not have.

You talk about people having to present ID when asked, presumably by the police or similar. But there has to be a police officer there to do the asking, and enough of them that it isn't an option for people to just refuse, otherwise it doesn't mean anything.

And again, as has been pointed out to you a loooooooot of times now, most crimes against the person are between people who know each other. Identification isn't the issue.

@OrdsallChord
In terms of travel it would not be the police that needed an ID, once we had a system supported by the technology then the infrastructure is in place.
It is possible that people have different opinions and they are entitled to hold these views.

You said people would need to present this when asked. That's what I was referring to, not trains.

I assume you meant the police or some kind of authority rather than passing randoms, particularly as you previously mentioned your town centre. And it's a fact that a requirement to produce an ID card when asked doesn't create police or officials to do the asking and to make people do it when they don't want to. People are entitled to hold the view that it does, perhaps via some process of magic, but they'll be wrong.

Another thing that's not a matter of opinion is the frequency of violent crimes committed when the victim and perpetrator know each other already. ID cards obviously won't affect that.

But how can they be mandatory and exclusive?

it'a funny how to obtain my first UK passport after naturalisation I need to send in....

my EU ID card 😂😂

Germany have ID cards and still high number of undocumented migrants?

Does it really solve the issues?

If you know someone who will give you job without ID they'll do it whatever ID you're meant to use

But I can do that already.

Why do I have to pay an extra fee to prove what I already can!?

The magic of an identity card sees to be invisible and indescribable.

So no one ever borrowed or stole a credit card ever.

And then you end up in a situation trying to prove you weren't there when your card was.

You do realise there was a whole scandal recently when the computer said something but the workers hadn't done it. Right?

It’s not designed to stop illegal migration, merely a tool to ensure that people have the right to be there. And if they don’t have any id then they need to be processed