Identity Cards: yes or no?

[Papyrophile]

Gerard Darminin, French Home Secretary equivalent, has said that the UK is making itself a migrant target because we have no national officially issued ID card proving entitlement.

I, a very ordinary citizen, already have an NHS number issued at birth, and a National Insurance number sent to me at 16, neither of which has changed. I also have a passport number, due for renewal next year, a driver's license and a Government Gateway number for my occasional exchanges with officialdom.

Why would anyone who has nothing to hide from the authorities prefer not to hold an official proof of identity?

Oh god, great comparison! I’d totally forgotten how crazy people were acting in Covid - there’d definitely be neighbours reporting on each other ‘999, I don’t think my neighbour has a valid ID card!!!’

You know that facial recognition systems are racist?
They mix up black and brown faces. There was a fascinating programme about it. So who would be impacted adversely by this 🤔

They don’t but request govt id. Id cards are part of that

@Pinkfluffypencilcase
I disagree that facial recognition is racist. In say China facial recognition is used all the time and no such problems exist in mix ups.

I'm sure the Chinese government would be fully transparent about it if there were.

Bahahaha.
Quite.

Some of the stuff posted on this thread is mind-blowing.

I would actually welcome this, although I'm probably in the minority. I don't have a current passport (haven't needed one as I've not travelled abroad for many years) and I don't have a driving licence as I don't drive (yes,I know,the ultimate Mumsnet crime!). Whenever I'm asked to provide photo ID,I have the same problem over and over again. I get thoroughly sick of being made to feel like I'm a non-person because I don't have a passport or a driving licence! An official,nationally recognized form of ID would be welcomed by me.

Unless you have an eyesight condition precluding it, you could apply for a provisional driving licence. There's no requirement to try and learn to drive, and it's cheaper than a state issued ID card would likely be.

There's quite a bit of research on this now.
It's to do with the bias of the coders.

See also self driving cars where black or brown faces are mis identified as not prople at a greater rate than white faces.

I suspect it varies depending upon how AI is used. I can't see how if a country as large as China uses this for air travel and train travel then it must be accurate due to safety concerns

Well I guess it's the coding that's the issue. And I don't trust that things would be done properly. They'll say it will but then costs will escalate and the correct coding won't happen.

Now if you're a white male life is much simpler. Things work for you. If you're not then it's. not quite right.
For something that's unnecessary I don't want to risk it.

I think there is difference between the technology not being able to do something and the coding/skills of the inputs. I believe that we need to use the technology and use it appropriately to make people's lives safer.

But it never happens that way tho does it.

Eg smart motorways meant to be more efficient and safety built in with refuge areas. Until the cost cutting happened and they reduced the number of refugee. Causing unintended deaths.

So no ID cards for no real purpose - no thanks.
Plus it won't reduce immigration at all. It won't stop access to services. And it'll be open to abuse.

Definitely not in Scotland with an SNP government.. everything they touch they fuck it up and obviously being an SNP government it would have to be different from rest of the UK.

'must be accurate'

Why? China doesnt value the human lives of its citizens. There is no transparency. No transparency means no need for accuracy. Just a need to not have daily disasters.

Yes, this level of trust in the Chinese regime is quite bemusing. It's a country where they've got internment camps for one of the more inconvenient ethnic minorities. Do posters really think they give a fuck if a few of the not many black people living there end up disadvantaged by something?

You need to give that last sentence a little more thought.

How would you stop someone paying £15ph for mowing their lawn? you'd have to ban cash and you'd need to give HMRC access to every single banking transaction.

Not declaring income over £1000 pa is already illegal but HMRC is struggling to even find landlords not declaring income.

ID cards could limit how easy it is for someone to be someone else to access public services & the authorities already have access to a multitude of databases.

Biometrics are already used in driving licences and passports

However, its not going to happen, the country has no money.

Isn't there a difference between that and the huge number of companies trading and doing VAT etc with adverts with recruitment agencies though?

Lots could be done in this area that isn't.

Not going to have one. The government do not own me.

The costs would be huge and data breaches a very high probability.
Likewise a no from me

But you do need to stump up £34 quid, so again, if an ID card is cheaper than that.
There are costs to renew any ID in the UK whether thats drivers, provisional or passport.

Again though, it's unrealistic to think an ID card system would be cheaper than that. As has already been pointed out, even 20 years ago the mooted cost was £75, and if we did have them, they'd be biometric. Which is dearer.

The fact that there are going to be costs to get any ID in the UK is the whole reason why your point about driving licences and passports excluding people is moot here. Because so would ID cards. They change nothing in that respect.

Hmm, my Spanish Id card was 12 euros, I am sure the inhabitants of one of the foremost world economies can afford 12 euros. It lasts 10 years.

When this was last proposed in the UK in 2006 the cost was going to be over £70.

A UK ID card will not be 12 Euros. Of that I'm sure.

Fair enough.
I'm still pro them even if they exclude some people. Such is life.