Identity Cards: yes or no?

[Papyrophile]

Gerard Darminin, French Home Secretary equivalent, has said that the UK is making itself a migrant target because we have no national officially issued ID card proving entitlement.

I, a very ordinary citizen, already have an NHS number issued at birth, and a National Insurance number sent to me at 16, neither of which has changed. I also have a passport number, due for renewal next year, a driver's license and a Government Gateway number for my occasional exchanges with officialdom.

Why would anyone who has nothing to hide from the authorities prefer not to hold an official proof of identity?

Chips in the brain?

Elon's on the case!

Can’t wait! 🤣

Nah.

The police don't have the resources to investigate a lot of crimes, and people know this. There's a vast amount of crime that the police are never involved in at all. Also, lots of the most significant crime involves no question over identity. Think of how many rapes, assaults and murders are between people who know each other already.

People aren't committing and getting away with crimes because they don't have ID cards. You don't have to make an application with photo identification in order to be accepted for county lines.

They'd run around catching criminals.

They would replace much needed police because this would be a better approach than recruiting more police.

Then we can jail these criminals in our prisons....

...hmmm.

Oh and let's not forget ID cards would be a really good solution instead of early intervention and better mental health support.

Obviously.

Spot the Dead Cat policy.

I just think, do people reckon burglars are going to be scanning their ID before they rob your house?

Honestly I would love an id card even for children over 10 it wouod be great for ds to be able to prove he is still a child when he is taller than his own mother

@OrdsallChord
Perhaps if there were ID cards, facial recognition , finger prints then the detection of crimes would be so much easier. We have the technology and perhaps it should be used to protect law abiding citizens

A PASS card might be of use.

https://www.postoffice.co.uk/identity/pass-card

They do a version for under 16s.

I genuinely think they do tbh.

What's the problem? Illegal immigration and crime.
Oh so what's the solution?
Well ID cards will deffo stop people smugglers selling false promises and help illegal migrants learn Romanian instead. It will definitely stop the cash in hand work market. And it will stop criminal gangs working illegally. There will be no attempt to try and steal ID cards nor use this as an opportunity to further fleece vulnerable migrants.

Oh wait. No it won't.

Nor will it stop advocates of ID cards from being able to think coherently about what ID cards can and can't actually do.

I don’t think it would tbh; I think people would just come up with new ways to commit criminal offences, undetected.

I also would not want my dna etc in a system - can you imagine all the ways in which that could go wrong?

The word 'perhaps' is doing a lot of work in that sentence. You've also added a number of things to the initial ID card claim.

But again, how would ID cards prevent and detect crimes? You need to be specific. People who are up to no good and want to use their anonymity to assist with that don't tend to provide proof of identification while they do it. It's pretty common knowledge that fingerprints can be evidence, so gloves are used.

And then for crimes against the person, the majority happen with people who know each other and often in the victim's own home.

Although the French don’t have mandatory ID cards either…so I suspect not!

You’d never find a black market for fake IDs. Oh no that doesn’t happen now so certainly wouldn’t happen with a state run ID. It would be so wholesome, not racist, not discriminatory and not at all used to harass people authorities felt were deserving of harassment.

and then there’s cost. If an ID were to be a legal requirement they’d have to be free not £90 for a few years.

So what percentage of those convicted is commited by repeat offenders...? Who all already have their biometrics on file... (Keeping in mind those crimes that mean you can't reoffend too).

I'm not so sure the issue is necessarily catching people that's an issue. I think the issue relating to reoffending needs to be firmly on the radar here.

Yes, I know someone who couldn't vote as they had no ID and couldn't get Voter ID either.

Why not just a government controlled viewing and listening device in your own home, which has to be active 24/7, with it being a criminal offence to obscure it or avoid observation for any period, and a squad of police state troopers in every residential building to "protect" law-abiding citizens from anyone deemed a criminal?

This thread is full of people actively clamouring for ramped-up state surveillance, interference, restriction of civil liberty, presumption of guilt, and no right to anonymity. It's absolutely mind-boggling.

I also would not want my dna etc in a system - can you imagine all the ways in which that could go wrong?

Within about 1 millisecond, the police would start trawling for familial matches.

Identity fraud exists now. The idea that ID cards would stop identity fraud rather than merely create a desire to commit more identity fraud and therefore more innocent victims who 'had nothing to hide' kinda baffles me.

It'd be used to profile... 'pre-crime' anyone?

I'd like an Id card. I don't want to go abroad anytime soon so no need for a passport and my driving licence is still a paper one.

I'm undecided about a DNA database but think everyone should have a microchip linked to your bank account and the NHS. Go shopping, wave your arm at a machine, Beep! paid for. No waiting for the person in front to be surprised they have to pay and start fumbling for payment.

Go into hospital Beep! all your medication and information is available. You are being discharged Beep! your new or change of medication is uploaded to the microchip. Wave your arm at your GP Receptionist and Beep! the new medication automatically amended on your GP surgery system.

Countries where there is more surveillance and ID cards are safer. In my view this is an excellent use of technology.

The top 10 countries by number of CCTV cameras are:

1. China – 200 Million CCTV Cameras
2. United States – 50 Million CCTV Cameras
3. Germany – 5.2 Million CCTV Cameras
4. United Kingdom – 5 Million CCTV Cameras
5. Japan – 5 Million CCTV Cameras
6. Vietnam – 2.6 Million CCTV Cameras
7. France – 1.65 Million CCTV Cameras
8. South Korea – 1 Million+ CCTV Cameras
9. Netherlands – 1 Million CCTV Cameras
10. Australia – 1 Million CCTV Cameras

Hmm. Ok. If you say so. The above is interesting...

Well indeed. Let’s rewind 4 and a half years to the hysteria on here about lockdowns, what was allowed, what wasn’t allowed, how often you could leave the house, what work was allowed, what shopping was allowed, who was allowed in your ‘bubble’ and indeed even what a ‘bubble’ was. Almost no-one, including most police forces, interpreted the rules correctly, legally, or as the government intended.

Now, overlay mandatory identity cards, with a police power to demand them at any time, in any place. And some emergency legislation giving every tin pot local Covid warden (remember them?) the same right. And the police the right to arrest anyone without theirs because ‘Covid’ and ‘emergency’. It would have been chaos.