Has the Government shot itself in the foot?

[Fernie6491]

Just wondering about the idea of the government stopping winter fuel payments for us oldies.

i admit we are comfortably enough off, to not actually need it, but they say those claiming pension credit etc., will still be paid the fuel allowance.

The goverment spokespeople say not all pensioners who could claim pension credit are doing so. If this prompts those pensioners to claim their due, the government will be paying out a whole lot more than they currently do, plus the allowance .

They seem to have shot themselves in the foot, trying to save money, but actually will end up paying out even more to those who previously never claimed benfits. Is this correct, or am I going mad?

What have people got against train drivers?! They provide an essential public service. I assume you want there to be a train at a convenient time for you to get you safely from a-b? Not forgetting that an occupational hazard is bearing witness to people throwing themselves to death in front of you on occasion.

There’s no surplus of train drivers -it can’t be that good a job

@Sunshineonararainydayyy I agree that personality politics are not what anybody needs, but surely the message would be better delivered as things being (very) tough, but with the government striving to get the country through this and in a better place. No false promises, of course, and certainly no ‘we’re all in this together crap’, but some sincere, realistic positivity.

I certainly don’t disagree with what you say, but I think there’s a balance to be struck, and I’m not sure Starmer or Reeves have got it right just yet.

That said, and fwiw, they’ve still got my support.

There would be an uproar, it would cause massive resentment.There are and people here commenting, know pensioners who clearly don’t need (that’s why it should be means tested) the winter fuel allowance, yet are very angry, l hasten to add not all feel this way.

It's an extraordinary political decision. Why didn't they put it in their manifesto? Their own research claimed that possibility 4000 pensioners a year could die as a result of the abolition. They could have looked at other options, making it taxable, letting people opt out, give notice of withdrawal, making sure the 800,000 who are entitled to pension credit and don't claim actually get it. To put pensioners at the top of their hit list is well, inexplicable.

Yep

What a ridiculous post. Read the pp and look up the reality for many pensioners on basic state pension

They're having a vote.
Some MPs are going to avoid being there so it's not on their record that they voted for it against.

Why can't it work like child benefit - for low incomes only?

Sorry but do you genuinely think younger generations don't know all this?? We're acutely aware that none of the benefits older generations enjoy will be available to us unless there are drastic changes to our society and economy.

Take the state pension as an example. It is very well known that it is entirely unsustainable, and if those of under 40 are to receive what current pensioners get we would have to work until we are 74 to make it viable.

What are the chances of current pensioners accepting the removal of things like the triple lock to help ensure younger generations don't have to work well into their 70s?

Zero would be my guess, so enough of the faux outrage and claims of ageism. We're not angry at you because of your age, we're angry at you because you created this mess, continue to be one of the biggest barriers to change and have no issue with screwing younger people over.

It isn't due to the pensioners that you are angry at,the state pension is low already. There will be elderly people suffering with various conditions unable to get through winter without struggle or worse due to this.

That segment has not created any mess for you, they have worked all the years necessary to not receive pension credit likely not in high paid jobs. Why be angry at them?

It's mostly due to demographics and the ageing population. That's causing strain on the system. It looks very difficult although maybe technology will help if politicians can grab some tax benefits etc from it

Who did you vote for during all those years?

But they probably have children and Grandchildren who will be available to vote in the next GE.

The biggest problem imo is that successive governments have failed to invest in training our own people, instead relying on immigration to plug gaps in public services. This failure to train new dentists and doctors etc was a massive failure in Brexit preparations and means the existing public sector workers have the government over a barrel. They have to increase wages now and that money will have to come from somewhere. Plenty of pensioners about - they're economically inactive but cost money...

I'm not actually opposed to means tested WFA. My mother's friends spend theirs on wine for their cellars - these are not people who need extra support. But receipt should be set at a higher income level.

They might increase the threshold for this in the budget , but I've no idea ( at least it may stop some of the criticism?)
I've told a friend of mine her mum should apply for pension credits , but it falls on deaf ears. A lot of people don't want to claim for many reasons , sometimes it's just pride or not sure how to or all manner of things. Without help some just can't do it or know where to start really.

I know quite a few pensioners ( MiL, DF and their friends) who are all fairly well off and have aLl said at one point or another that they don't really need it.

I don't think there is any question that they should not be getting it. I was listening to the radio yesterday and they were saying how much of a deluge there has been for people applyIng for pension credit. The form is pages and pages long and someone who applied for it in July still hasn't been processed. Another lady had £7.50 a week too much to apply for it and therefore not going to get her winter fuel payment either.

There is no doubt that people need to prove they are eligible but processing these pension credit claims needs to be much quicker and it needs to be a sliding scale so those on the cusp of not being able to get the credit don't massively lose out.

Many civil service jobs have disappeared over the years or people not being replaced, so any kind of claim for PC won't be quick. It's still worth trying though, but I'm sure many are out off by the rigmarole in order to see if your entitled or not.

This entirely. The Daily Mail lot don't like it being pointed out that pensioners are the biggest benefits claimants out there....

Well yeh. Pensions are quite common in many countries so people can stop work.

Oh my goodness all the DM do is antagonise
Pitting the young against the older generation
It’s so contentious, l’m going to leave it there.

Why would they have put it on their manifesto and harm their chances of winning?I reckon this was always on their to do list.

Wasn’t Starmer talking about an old lady called Elsie, who ride buses to get out of the cold ?

Im shocked Labour have done this to save relatively little money..

I have to admit at first I kind of agreed with it . But then a close family member made me see it from different angles.

They said that when you’re old , you’d like to think the government would look after you as best they could.
Old people can’t do overtime, get more income or get a better paid job. Many have to live on a state pension.

Many pensioners live alone. Not all but many are widowed. They only live on their pension.

Also , this could be the start of getting rid of it altogether. Yes it’s being means tested to a degree but give it two years and I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s gone for everyone.

Finally , one day if we’re lucky we’ll also be old. Wouldn’t we want our government to look after us? If they start snipping away at pensioners now, god only knows what will happen in 10, 20 or even 30 years time.

This is the start of a slippery slope. I’m not liking where this is headed.

Your 65th birthday (Daily Mail Day) is the day that you turn from a benefit scrounging parasite into an impoverished pensioner worthy of state help.

I think a 65–year-old asylum seeker would blow their minds.

They Government want the money to be directed to those who need it. They want people who are eligible to claim it, they are encouraging them to claim and may have already done this anyway. That money will be in DWP budget already but it is underspending on that part of the budget.