Has the Government shot itself in the foot?

[Fernie6491]

Just wondering about the idea of the government stopping winter fuel payments for us oldies.

i admit we are comfortably enough off, to not actually need it, but they say those claiming pension credit etc., will still be paid the fuel allowance.

The goverment spokespeople say not all pensioners who could claim pension credit are doing so. If this prompts those pensioners to claim their due, the government will be paying out a whole lot more than they currently do, plus the allowance .

They seem to have shot themselves in the foot, trying to save money, but actually will end up paying out even more to those who previously never claimed benfits. Is this correct, or am I going mad?

I think the timing was optimal tbh. Announce you are taking away £200-300 a couple of weeks before the triple lock gives back £400.

The chances are the triple lock may not result in the large increase again (or it might!) and so you likely have one shot to partner the two news items together, which is this year.

That said, the Deadly Mail headlines have been making me chuckle: for years (decades) they have been screaming for govs to cut benefits and are now screaming 'Hang on, we didn't mean THOSE benefits'

Apparently polling data shows the majority of people actually support this cut / change in policy. I do. I think the govt should stick to their guns on it.
You can't please everyone all the time. They are going to have to be determined and push through changes that some won't like, in order to get anything done.
Politicians should lead and have the courage of their convictions, not just try to be popular. Tricky in a democracy, obviously!

Expats haven't had WFA for years in Spain and France and many other countries.

That was just dreadful reporting. The same rules apply to ex-pats as to pensioners here: if they are in receipt of pension credit, whether they live in Spain or Stratford, they will get it, if not, they won’t.

Guaranteed they will save a lot more by removing the winter fuel allowance and any increase in benefit claiming. Will be small.

however as raynor is effectively appointed by the unions and he can’t get rid of her, we can see more of this shit coming.

its like having a bunch of militant work experience teens running the country.

I caught an interesting debate on 'Any Answers' on R4 on this issue on Saturday. Worth a listen for anyone else who is interested. They had representatives from both Labour and the Conservatives speaking. So much frothing and nonsense from media and trade unionists on this issue (The Today programme this morning had some stupid TUist wittering on incoherently).

I think you mean ‘would be extremely unpopular’. At the moment it’s just a rumour - not even a leak. Same with the removal of the 5% increase cap. People are just making things up to fret about - I’m not saying some won’t happen, they may do, but it’ll just be because people are making up every possible scenario and them pushing it as though it’s already decided. Give over until the budget and stop scaring people.

There are definitely pensioners not claiming Pension Credit who should be. However if all of them now do it’ll still be a lot less expensive to pay out than WFA to everyone. As a PP said, it doesn’t even matter if it’s not because it’s as much about directing funds to those in need as it is about saving money.

I don’t think you can say they’ve shot themselves in the foot if we don’t have an estimate of the numbers.

Anecdotally, my mum receives pension credit and therefore will keep her winter fuel payment. She receives PIP and has no private pension or any other income.

I’m very happy that she gets her pension/ pension credit and the WFP, but in her case, I don’t think she needs the WFP at the moment.

She owns her own home, and is comfortably able to afford her bills and has plenty of money for a cleaner and gardener and holidays.

However in future she may need carers and I’m aware that may be very costly, in which case the WFP would be needed.

It should be means tested, but it needs to be means tested properly. People with small private pensions who are not eligible for pension credit will lose it. Those are the people who will be hit hardest. They are living on less than minimum wage and are a world away from being wealthy pensioners.

It's a shameful policy. Lazily implemented and focused on people who are an easy target. Starmer and Reeves should hang their heads in shame. They disgust me.

Not really, the benefit should absolutely not be handed out to everyone without any means testing whatsoever. How is that even fair on people who might also benefit from the payment but can't because they're not old? Is it fine to freeze just because you're young? If you're young you're more likely to br working so they're effectively making the workforce ill by not making help fairer.

Does that include State Pension?

Do tell us where there's been an announcement about the removal of the single person council tax discount.

No coincidence they have called their new cat Prince.

He handed over that actual money?

I think it's harder to bury decisions made these days because of social media and much more transparency
Almost daily, lbc presenters will play snippets of politicians going back years not to mention X , Facebook etc and comments on there
It kind of keeps it alive/ going

When you're young you can get about more. The best way to get warm is to go for a brisk walk, which the majority of elderly people can't do. The elderly are classed as a vulnerable group, they can't help being old and feeling the cold more.

The cut off point is too low.

State benefits should be enough to bring people up to a basic level. To me that includes adequate but basic accommodation & utilities, but not luxuries.

Oh bugger off. It's not about 'going for a walk', prolonged exposure to the cold affects your health no matter what age you are. Yes it affects the elderly too, if they're entitled to help they can claim it and if they can pay their own bills they bloody well can do that too. Many of them were able to buy a house for about 9 grand years ago, had free education and numerous other benefits today's younger generations will never see. Yes some of them aren't very well off but support with paying essential bills is for the people who need it most, of any age, not an added bonus for being older ffs.

What do you consider luxuries.

I think you can’t criticise the gov without giving your proposal of another method of how to raise the money.
Apparently T May put this proposal forward along with the ‘dementia’ tax and here we are with shit care for the elderly and constant bed blocking.
No money for anything.
It infuriates me that MPs pretend to care for hard up pensioners whilst destroying any plans for their care in very old age and not sorting out home carers etc etc etc etc

Education is still free, not sure why you think it isn't.

I was obviously referring to further education, which was free up until the graded fees were brought in. While it's true that fewer people went to university then, it was at least accessible without getting into lifelong debt and having to work way too many hours per week which many students today have to do, on top of full time study. Likewise it or not the older generation is by far the most pampered possibly in British history, and good for them, but it's time to end the freebies to be more sensible with how we spend money.

@YogaForDummies

Not sure why you would begrudge an elderly person who only gets £22O a week, which is less than someone on minimum wage, getting help with their fuel costs.

People work for minimum wage and pay tax and NI on it.

There's no reason for pensions to be payable at the same rate.