Has the Government shot itself in the foot?

[Fernie6491]

Just wondering about the idea of the government stopping winter fuel payments for us oldies.

i admit we are comfortably enough off, to not actually need it, but they say those claiming pension credit etc., will still be paid the fuel allowance.

The goverment spokespeople say not all pensioners who could claim pension credit are doing so. If this prompts those pensioners to claim their due, the government will be paying out a whole lot more than they currently do, plus the allowance .

They seem to have shot themselves in the foot, trying to save money, but actually will end up paying out even more to those who previously never claimed benfits. Is this correct, or am I going mad?

Why on earth did they not use the tax figures to decide the cut off point. We would still probably lose it which is right and fair but at least those who tried to help themselves would not be penalized.

It's not all or nothing though, you just happen to disagree with where the line has been drawn. No matter where it is there will be those who are 'just a few quid' on the wrong side of it though.

I find the whole narrative around this quite frustrating, to be honest. The country has been run into the ground, with the average person, especially younger generations, bearing the brunt of austerity and rising inequality.

Now, the wealthiest generation in history is being asked to contribute a bit more, and they're reacting as if they've been asked to move into a workhouse.

The irony, of course, is that it’s this same generation of pensioners who helped establish a system that prioritises growth for the few, over one that benefits society as a whole. But that won't stop the complaints now that they’re on the other end of it.

Because most of them won't be paying any rent as that will be covered separately via housing benefit, or they'll be sitting in their house they bought for about 12 grand which is now likely worth in excess of 250k. Not sure what's hard to understand about that. Do you think working people live for free?

I agree with changing it from a universal benefit based on age. By all means have hardship assistance for pensioners on low incomes.

Of all the pensioners I know, including parents, aunts & uncles, elderly neighbours and former colleagues none of them actually needed it & my PIls used it for holiday spending money! I would rather the money is spent towards services for people who really are on the poverty line.

It’s in the same vein as child benefit -which the Tories stopped being a universal benefit - which is not given to affluent households.

A report by The Centre For Ageing Better carried out in 2023 found that 37% of pensioners who privately rent are in poverty.

2.1 million pensioners have an income that is less than 60% of the national average.

Pensioners solely reliant on the state pension, meaning they won't be entitled to pension credit, have just £41 for their weekly food shop and insufficient funds for emergencies such as boiler breakdown etc.

Of course there are some pensioners who are well off and don't need the WFA, but there are millions of other pensioners who do need it but are just above the cut off point who are really going to struggle this winter.

I’m sick of hearing about it tbh. Pensioners were the only group who were left alone by the Tories while the rest of us suffered cut after cut after cut.

I just wish that people had got this het up when David Cameron completely redefined disability for adults which caused thousands to lose their benefits and directly resulted in their deaths. If that wasn’t enough, just as the Tories were about to lose the last election they thought they might stick the knife further into disabled people by telling us we’re all lazy fuckers who don’t actually need money we can be completely dehumanised and be given vouchers. No one made a fuss about that.

I’ve got multiple health problems which are exacerbated by the cold, so much so that it makes me cry with pain. I get no WFA. I don’t mind because I don’t need it , but plenty of disabled people do, especially those with medical equipment. Disabled people are far more likely to be in poverty than pensioners.

The whole point of a sliding scale is to mitigate as much as possible that exact scenario of some people falling a few quid outside of eligibility.

I didn’t say whether I do or do not disagree with the line, but as a fundamental principle I believe benefits (beyond universal access to education and healthcare) should be means tested, and should incorporate sliding scales.

I could not agree more with everything else you’ve written!

The simplest thing would have been simply to add that amount onto the Pension-then for richer pensioners it would be taxed anyway. Pointless to keep it -as a separate amount.

They are welcome to join the rest of the nation, who are similarly struggling. Why should some people struggle more than others? If you can't afford to hest your home you will get help, if you can afford it then you won't. I'm sure some people will be worse off but why should they get extra support when others don't? It's no wonder swathes of the working age population are signed off for sickness when they're not even afforded the same help as the elderly. It's tremendously expensive to live in this country for everyone, no one should be offered extras they don't need which we can't afford.

Many pensioners don't need it at all. My father used it to buy a nice bottle of whisky each year which he delighted in telling everyone. If it turns out some of the lower income pensioners would be entitled to more help through pension credit than they receive then that is a good thing.

Also to the people who are moaning about the Government settling the long standing pay disputes - did you want the NHS and rail strikes to continue indefinitely because they were pretty disruptive! Congratulations to the Government for settling them, something the Tories seemed incapable of doing.

Train drivers are responsible for hundreds of people lives and work antisocial hours, why shouldn’t they be paid accordingly?

People have short memories, during Covid public sector workers kept the country running. Clapping and banging on saucepans isn’t enough, junior doctors work a demanding, crucial role and we need to retain them in the NHS.

Starmer can’t win on this. If they stick to fleecing the pensioners to pay the train drivers, he looks pretty mean. If they make a u turn on it, he looks like he’s just a sock puppet for the unions. Poor love.

And those with disabilities who can't go for a walk?

Some of us younger people do feel the cold. Going for a walk isn't going to stop my hands from going numb because they're too cold. (Even with gloves before someone suggests I just wear gloves)

A pensioner who is topped up by pension credit gets £218 a week and will still get the WFA. A pensioner who gets the state pension only of £220 a week so just £2 a week more, you're saying they should be able to afford all their bills and don't deserve the WFA.

Just reframe it. Pensioners are being asked to have a few less bottles of wine to help junior pay for the junior doctors a sensible wage for the work they do. The elderly are biggest users of the NHS.

Not sure what the train drivers have to do with it as they will get paid from ticket price increases.

My response was to a poster who was talking about young people, who I took from the wording in her post were not disabled.

"The elderly are the biggest users of the NHS"

The bastards...... how dare they!

@Fernie6491 I think it was an unwise decision. You may not need it but someone living off of just £11500 a year state pension with no private pension or other savings do need it. They should have said any pensioner with less than £20k a year could still get it. Giving train drivers a £10k a year rise is ludicrous and they are still going to strike. All other Unions will now push for a similar rise. This is how inflation rises. It's a pity because inflation was back under control but with lots of high pay rises it will sky rocket again and that helps no one.

I don’t understand why they couldn’t implement it now for higher rate taxpayers, then look at a more reasonable threshold.

I’m happy to see the back of the conservative government, but if Labour are serious about the adults being back in charge, as certain MPs put it, they need to drop the ‘it’s all their fault’ narrative sooner rather than later. The lack of positivity in the new government is a very poor look. Blair came in on a wave of optimism and Things Can Only Get Better. Starmer is more Life’s Hard Then You Die, and admittedly the world/country are very different than they were in 1997, but I think his government can be so much better than that.

@GinToBegin while I agree positivity is far nicer messaging to hear however it would have been tone deaf of Starmer to be celebratory with a backdrop of riots and cuts. He’s not a billy bullshitter and has said the immediate period will be hard.

The markers will be by the end of this term of office whether there are fewer people living in poverty and steadier and better provision within the NHS & a growing economy.

Banning outdoor smoking in public places & getting rid of the ridiculous single worded grade for schools (causing stampedes in and from catchment area like lemmings) are all quietly positive changes. So no fanfare and glitz but proactive policy being introduced.

i think we had quite enough ‘personality politics’ with Johnson who was alleged to have said ‘let the bodies like high’ when he heard most of the Covid deaths were in the elderly age group, hardly a champion of pensioners!

Fuck off with your judgemental bottle of wine quips. Neither of us drinks any alcohol. My DH is disabled and I nearly died this year fro blood clots in both lungs. We’re dreading the winter. Now scuttle off back under your bridge, there’s a dear.

The ageism on here just gets worse. You just wait, the way things are going when you’re old there won’t be any fuel allowance, free NHS or pension for you. Be very careful what you wish for.

Yes agree. By giving this rise to the train drivers it’s opening the flood gates for the other unions. If Starmer thinks the train drivers will be happy with this he will have a shock when they want another increase in a year or two. I forsee inflation and as a result rising interest rates by the end of the Labour term.

We’re well aware of that as the tax we are paying can’t even support society now let alone in the future & for our children it’s an even bleaker perspective.

Everyone in society is having to make compromises & tighten belts.

well how do we pay for this - I saw this first cut back as a softener by the new Gov of the worse to come - what planet is everyone on - there’s no money for NHS staff, rebuilding unsafe schools, potholes, care homes, etcetcetcetcetc -so everyone plans that we should just continue on this downward spiral with the Gov borrowing g MORE money so that all our tax is spent paying for interest on debt?? Which is the case already