To not understand the uproar over winter fuel allowance being cut?

[virgocatlover]

It's not being cut. The poorest pensioners on pension credit will still get it. It's only being changed so it's no longer a universal payment anymore.

The energy price cap was £1834 October 2023. This October it's £1717. So it's £117 cheaper than it was last winter for average use.

In April 2024 the state pension rose by 8.5% - a rise of around £900 for those on full state pension. It's expected to rise another £400 next April.

Many energy companies still have schemes for those in genuine need. Plus the warm home discount exists for those on a low income.

I understand pensions who receive just state pension and no other income may be annoyed but there has to be a cut somewhere. But pensioners are unlikely to have the expense of rent/ mortgages in retirement which is the biggest expense to those of working age.

However most of the moans I've heard and seen seem to be from the well off pensioners who are cross about losing something. I know a woman who rents out three houses and spends the winter in the Caribbean who is spitting feathers about losing the payment. Another who spent the money on their Christmas booze.

There is so much uproar about this which didn't happen when there were so many other cuts affecting young people/workers/families. All other benefits are means tested, so should WFA.

People still see pensioners as those who fought in the war and counting pennies at the till to pay for their bread and milk. But that's just not the case these days.

There are few WWII veterans still left.

A generation of giants.

I agree- There are pensioners who fought in one or some of the many other wars since WWII. I really don’t understand framing the argument as only those who fought or lived through one war from 1938-1945 deserve a benefit.

It wasn't about fighting a war. What I meant is some people still see pensioners in the same way they were 20+ years ago when pensioner poverty was high and many didn't have two pennies to rub together. The pensioners then would have been born 1930s or before. My grandparents who were born in the 1920s fell into this category. The pensioners of that generation generally had vastly different lives and retirements to the generation under them. Fortunately things are better for both pensioners and the population in general these days.

Well that's your relatives but surely you must realise many pensioners do only get the basic state pension and will struggle a lot.

Do you think that's ok?

@ScribblingPixie
I’m surprised at that Spanish pension but you’re right about the race to rhe bottom. . I suppose labour has to start somewhere but I ‘d personally like them to focus on the care system , NHS, housing and youth opportunities rather than banging on about smoking in beer gardens.

My 77 year old dad has a total income of £235 per week, he has no savings and lives in a small flat. Can you not see that an extra £200 is a big deal to him?

Yes, 20yrs ago pensioner poverty was high, then in 2013 it was low, but now it is back to being high again!

https://ageing-better.org.uk/summary-state-ageing-2023-4

Since 2012-13, the number of pensioners living in poverty has steadily increased. But the situation is even worse for those just below state pension age. Contrary to stereotypes about ‘wealthy baby boomers’, people aged 60-64 have the highest poverty rates among adults of any age.

The number of older private renters is at an all-time high, meaning more people will need to cover the cost of rent while living on fixed – and often meagre – incomes.

Workers in their 50s and 60s are struggling to stay in or return to work, resulting in pensioner poverty and financial insecurity in old age.

Contrary to the perception that all older people are well off and enjoy a comfortable retirement, the reality is that almost one in five pensioners are living in relative poverty. Relative poverty among pensioners was at its lowest at 13% in 2012-13 but has been steadily increasing since then, reaching 18% in 2019-20 – about the same level as it is today.

The situation is even worse for those just below state pension age. Among all adults, the highest poverty rates for any age group are for people aged 60-64 – a quarter of whom are living in poverty.

This is especially worrying because changes to the state pension age mean that these people still have some time to wait before they receive their state pension.
Even when this group reach state pension age, they are still likely to face higher levels of poverty, due to growing numbers privately renting their homes, more people living with major illnesses, and many struggling to stay in or return to work in their 50s and 60s – all of which are explored in more detail below.
They are also likely to be more at risk than younger generations as they have only had a limited number of years to build up workplace pensions through auto-enrolment.

Pensioners are also far more likely to be living in unfit homes with high costs to heat:

Overall, half of the 3.5 million non-decent homes in England – those that fail to meet basic decency criteria as defined by the government – are headed by someone aged 55 and over (49%). A third are headed by someone aged 65 and over.

Most (76%) of the unsafe homes headed by someone aged 55 and over are owner-occupied – that is, approximately 1.3 million. Despite owning their home, many older people are unable to make vital repairs as they have low incomes and little to no savings.

Although smaller in overall numbers, the private rented sector has the highest proportion of non-decent homes. This means older private renters are likely to live in poor-quality homes, often at the mercy of an underregulated rental sector and without the ability to repair their homes or find more suitable accommodation.

Edited to underline a few key points

The state pension in Spain is ultra-generous, at nearly double the UK rate, especially as Spanish NMW is so much worse and youth unemployment is roughly 24%. It strikes me as unsustainable.

No, it hasn’t been established at all! Even if you had no mortgage/rent, would you want to spend the last years of your life penny pinching?

Luxembourg, Spain Belgium, Bulgaria, Liechtenstein, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Cyprus, France, Iceland, Denmark, Switzerland, the Netherlands, Norway and the Ukraine all have state pensions higher than the UK, according to this chart.

Our pension system is ranked far higher than Spain’s and far higher than the majority of countries

https://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/042914/top-pension-systems-world.asp

@AnnieSnap official stats from the ONS state most pensioners (75%) own their home outright. That's over half so definitely counts as 'most'.

Race to the bottom then, is it?

Pensions went up a higher % than the average salary, so the fact that prices went up more doesn't impact pensioners?

From the Telegraph in October 2023

Britain is often accused of offering its older citizens some of the worst pensions in Europe, but a new report shows that huge spending on both the state pension and subsidised private pension schemes means that overall, the UK ranks in the top 10 best places for retirees in the world...

That seems to be a comparison of various countries' different pension systems - the way that state pensions and private occupational pensions for current workers are organised. What's your point?

That's how it works if you require the state to fund your life at all ages. You cannot expect a state funded lifestyle to be luxurious. You have 50+ years to accrue savings, buy a home etc. If you failed to do that then you have to anticipate retirement will be frugal.

That may be true, but as a pensioner, I would prefer to choose how I spend my pension income, and I'd rather spend a Luxembourg pension than a UK pension.

That'll be in the South of England then. Not quite as rosy a picture in the N of England, Scotland, NI, NWales.. but hey-who cares about them eh? Never mind that they experience the worst/coldest winter weather, and most have houses worth a tiny fraction of those in the S &SE of England 🙄🤷🏼‍♀️

This is just a write up of the report you linked to above - same story.

The UK is London and that's all, isn't it? Didn't even know there was anywhere else!

(I'm from the NE, just to clarify, and live in the Midlands. Just in case anyone thinks I'm being serious).

Exactly this. NOW I understand why Scotland and Wales have so many people wanting independence!! If Starmer carries on like this-Scottish Indy will happen sooner rather than later.

That was in 2017.
It’s 71% over 65s own outright with no mortgage now, but in the group aged 60-64 only 33% own their home outright. The % is declining rapidly.

But what they own is usually a falling down dump, that they can’t afford to maintain to minimum habitation standards. Over 55s own & occupy 49% of all the non-decent homes on the country- 3.5 million homes, and over 65s 33%.

Well, best case you have 50+ years to accrue riches. Reality is that most people do not.

The thing about being a pensioner is you spend most of the day at home. Achy bones mean a lot of sitting around and so you get cold, so cold. Most younger people go to work and to the shops and are way more active. As a pensioner on the old state pension I know how hard it is to manage. I always paid a full stamp. I've never claimed benefits. That £300 is invaluable to vulnerable older people. Remember, to get the state pension most of us pay in for a very long time. The pension is ours by right. The fact that the government have topped it up in the past with this £300 simply means they know it's inadequate. I could go on but what's the point.

Unfortunately the newspaper headlines are always going to be deliberately misleading about these things, so I was horrified when I first saw those - then of course you find out it’s only pensioners with higher incomes who won’t be getting it any more. I’m amazed at how many people take the sensationalist headlines at face value and don’t even seem to notice when the whole article tells a different story.

My mum is one of the people who won’t get it any more and she’s always said it’s ridiculous she gets it and it should be means tested. She donates hers every year to a charity that provides Christmas dinners for homeless people but I’m sure most people who don’t need it just pocket it anyway. I just hope the income cut-off point is reasonable though so the people who really need it aren’t going to lose out.

So contrary to what the article states you don’t believe the UK is in the Top 10 of countries for retirees? Where does it rank then, in your view?