To not understand the uproar over winter fuel allowance being cut?

[virgocatlover]

It's not being cut. The poorest pensioners on pension credit will still get it. It's only being changed so it's no longer a universal payment anymore.

The energy price cap was £1834 October 2023. This October it's £1717. So it's £117 cheaper than it was last winter for average use.

In April 2024 the state pension rose by 8.5% - a rise of around £900 for those on full state pension. It's expected to rise another £400 next April.

Many energy companies still have schemes for those in genuine need. Plus the warm home discount exists for those on a low income.

I understand pensions who receive just state pension and no other income may be annoyed but there has to be a cut somewhere. But pensioners are unlikely to have the expense of rent/ mortgages in retirement which is the biggest expense to those of working age.

However most of the moans I've heard and seen seem to be from the well off pensioners who are cross about losing something. I know a woman who rents out three houses and spends the winter in the Caribbean who is spitting feathers about losing the payment. Another who spent the money on their Christmas booze.

There is so much uproar about this which didn't happen when there were so many other cuts affecting young people/workers/families. All other benefits are means tested, so should WFA.

People still see pensioners as those who fought in the war and counting pennies at the till to pay for their bread and milk. But that's just not the case these days.

I can’t bring myself to care about it, it’s about time cuts came from universal benefits that go to the section of society that holds vasts amounts of wealth.

@YellowComb what am I acting entitled to exactly?

Now imagine living on £219 a week and therefore not entitled to pension credit. You need to pay rent, gas/electric, water, food etc where are you finding the extra money for heating your home in the winter? Baring in mind you may have to heat it all day not just morning and evening as you dont have a warm workplace to go to during the day.

What do pensioners do when they can't afford their rent?

I agree OP because it is better that everyone gets the state pension rise which will cover what they would have got in a winter fuel payment and simplifies things. Labour need to make changes and they can’t save the NHS for example without making cuts elsewhere. It seems ridiculous for people like me to be given this payment when I am not in need. Perhaps the cut off needs tweaking but I agree in principle. My elderly DM will still be entitled.

It is a complete waste of precious resources to give it to pensioners who are managing OK and is contributing to the lack of equality between age groups. Help the young who are struggling.

Now imagine living on £219 a week and therefore not entitled to pension credit. You need to pay rent, gas/electric, water, food etc where are you finding the extra money for heating your home in the winter? Baring in mind you may have to heat it all day not just morning and evening as you dont have a warm workplace to go to during the day.

Many people do live on this or less after paying mortgage/rent. But there are schemes for those in need

I haven’t noticed an uproar, my older relatives thought it was ridiculous. They arent wealthy people either.

Someone i knew once had a job that involved highlighting pensioner poverty. It was almost impossible to find examples, as most pensioners on low income were entitled to more but didn’t want to claim it. That was the main argument for the payment being universal in the first place.

You are missing the point that amount isn't after paying rent/mortgages it is before. Your rent/mortgage has to come out of the £218.15

There is uproar in the press, including the right wing press which is surprising.

The real issue is where the cut off is. That needs to be adjusted.

But it does need a cut off. My inlaws with hundreds of thousands of pounds in the bank, and most of their friends, most definitely do not need it but certainly enjoyed getting it.

Disagree, not only homeowners but mortgage free too

You are missing the point that amount isn't after paying rent/mortgages it is before. Your rent/mortgage has to come out of the £218.15

Most pensioners are not paying this. Only 6% rent privately according to the ONS. Many would be entitled to housing benefit. Of course there are those who due to a technicality will slip through the net and there are schemes to help genuine cases. But a universal payment every year isn't the answer.

I think the threshold is in the wrong place but other than that I think it's fine. If it had always been means tested and someone suggested making it universal, that idea would be seriously criticised (rightly imo).

Of course it isn't. Winter fuel payment should never have been universal but it is being cut in the wrong place and that is what people are upset about.

@virgocatlover You don’t seem to understand how living on taxed income just above the pension credit threshold is really really difficult. The problem these people have is they cannot increase their income unless the government hands it out. I actually don’t believe hundreds of thousands of people are entitled but don’t claim. It’s a very difficult benefit to get and most people cannot manage on £220 a week. The fuel allowance should have been tapered. Basic maths tells you this is a stupid decision for little gain and many Laboir supporters say it’s self harm.

I support the principle of means testing. My own elderly parents don't need the winter fuel payments, and while they chose to donate theirs to charity, there will be many others who simply used it to fund extra holidays etc.

However, I think the cut-off is too low and I'm concerned about those who will just lose out. There should have been more tapering or something. I know that they've probably done it this way to minimise the admin costs of means testing, but there are some pensioners on low incomes that will genuinely struggle and that isn't right. The Chancellor needs to find a solution for those people.

This payment is a subsidy for fossil fuel company profits.

As long as those companies make huge profits they’re overcharging for energy.

Remove the payments and also limit energy company profits with a very steep windfall tax.

Why are we tax payers subsidising exploitative oil and gas corporations bonuses and dividends ?

Many pensioners have so much money they don't know what do with it & saw the allowance as pocket money tho. The line has to be drawn somewhere & I would like it go where it's needed, difficult for those that are borderline/ just miss out.

thing is though, my parents ARE mortgage free, cruise taking retirees who’ve spent the last three years telling me how they didn’t need it and how great it was that they got it. They are now morning that it’s being taken away from them despite admitting that they didn’t need it, so in those situations, it’s hard to justify an argument to keep it.

This.
Lods of oaps rent.
However I don't think millionaires need the allowance.

I think many people are in agreement that to cut WFA for people who don’t need it, is a good idea. What’s not such a good idea is that the cut off point is set very low and there will be people who will struggle even more to keep warm this winter because they’re just above the threshold.

We won’t get it and we will manage without it. I object to people who have the money to go on several holidays abroad every year, campaigning to have it reinstated. That’s just greed.

We’ll do what we did a couple of years go when energy prices were really inflated and get out the heated blanket and throws.

So please don’t think that it’s a general moan amongst pensioners. Like most people, we want those in greatest need to get it. The question is how to define those in greatest need.

So a lot of people agree it should not be universal but the cut off is wrong (I do) where should the cut off be? I ask because I know of people who complain but they are mortgage free, each get a full state pension plus small occupational pension and seem comfortable. I suspect income all together must be at least 30k but pensioners also pay tax.

Totally agree. My DH and I received this payment last year and had no need for it. I'd much rather it went to less fortunate people. Do those who think it should be universal agree with British pensioners living in Spain receiving it?
I hope the government are going to come up with something to alleviate the cliff edge though. Perhaps some kind of tapering of payment?

My dad is retired, my mum is housebound living in a hospital bed in their living room. They have a mortgage and no pension credit and are losing their payment.

They should have been cleverer than they were. So rather than kicking off with it so it seems that pensioners are a target, announcing a coherent set of policies to fill the black hole including winter fuel allowance. Also why didn't they just reduce the payment rather than remove? Easy to administer, people feel less pissed off. They could have announced tapering it off, it's £200 this year, £150 next year. £200 this year plus the reduction in the energy price cap is around £300. If course it depends how much your energy bill is. I voted labour btw, so I'm a big supporter but sometimes you need a measured approach.