To not understand the uproar over winter fuel allowance being cut?

[virgocatlover]

It's not being cut. The poorest pensioners on pension credit will still get it. It's only being changed so it's no longer a universal payment anymore.

The energy price cap was £1834 October 2023. This October it's £1717. So it's £117 cheaper than it was last winter for average use.

In April 2024 the state pension rose by 8.5% - a rise of around £900 for those on full state pension. It's expected to rise another £400 next April.

Many energy companies still have schemes for those in genuine need. Plus the warm home discount exists for those on a low income.

I understand pensions who receive just state pension and no other income may be annoyed but there has to be a cut somewhere. But pensioners are unlikely to have the expense of rent/ mortgages in retirement which is the biggest expense to those of working age.

However most of the moans I've heard and seen seem to be from the well off pensioners who are cross about losing something. I know a woman who rents out three houses and spends the winter in the Caribbean who is spitting feathers about losing the payment. Another who spent the money on their Christmas booze.

There is so much uproar about this which didn't happen when there were so many other cuts affecting young people/workers/families. All other benefits are means tested, so should WFA.

People still see pensioners as those who fought in the war and counting pennies at the till to pay for their bread and milk. But that's just not the case these days.

YABU. The problem is that Labour have set the cut off point far too low. There are pensioners who will miss out because they are literally a few ponds per month over the Pension Credit kevel (it is set RIDICULOUSLY low. For every wealthy pensioner there are 109 who are poor. Pernsiiner poverty is a REAL thing, especially in the over 80s. Try a bit of empathy for the elderly poor ffs.

Seems to me, the fairest way to do this would be to restrict to basic rate taxpayers. Of course , that wouldn't save as much, but ought not bring distressing stories over the winter period. I believe there would have been little criticism.

Whilst at it, why not do away with the £10 Christmas bonus. Its absurd, hasn't increased in decades or so, and must cost more to administer.

The even bigger saving, and I haven't seen anyone point this out yet, is pensioners dying off earlier.
The one off saving of £300, is as nothing compared with the money saved by the premature demise of the person concerned. Some may consider it a deliberate, despicable, cynical ploy.
I heard some guesstimate of 4,000 extra avoidable deaths, how such can be calculated, I've no idea.

The warnings were sounded five and a half years ago about the changes to Pension Credit (including the fact that the younger partner is often the carer) but there is too much of a "race to the bottom mentality" in this country.

Thread from five years ago

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/money-matters/3479693-Changes-to-Pension-Credit

Eh? Where are you living that pensioners have too much money?

A pensioner on basic state pension won't be on much. They can't access other income and will likely be at home more.

Suck it up buttercup is pretty vindictive

I absolutely agree. Single people are always the last ones to benefit from most things. COUPLES can't afford mortgages these days, so God only knows how a single person ever expects to leave home. How can those in charge of these matters be so short sighted?

Whoops! I was so annoyed when I typed this I forgot to spellcheck before I posted it! But my points stand. Too many pensioners who DESERVE help will miss out due to the labour cuts.

And yet during Covid it was all "well if it saves just one life"

The Tories did want to cut when Teresa May was in the Labour Party went ballistic

I'm pretty sure many posters on here were demanding extra support for energy payments over the col months

Which were given

For every wealthy pensioner there are 109 who are poor

@Thistlewoman what is your source for this? As that would mean over 99% of pensioners are poor.

I agree that it should be means tested and given only to those who really need it. I also think child benefit should be means tested too. You can earn £60k a year and claim over £1200 a year in child benefit! That is money that could be be better spent imo. For the record, I and some of my friends donated our WFA to charity.

Clearly you have never been seriously in want, never gone without meals, never shivered your way through cold and damp. Clearly you totally lack empathy and any understanding of the bitter choices and sheer exhaustion of those badly affected, for whom every pound is spoken for.
Pensioners are and always have been such an easy target.
Look at what happened years ago to women born in the 1950s who found their pension age changed by 6 years with little notice.

And now, under a so called caring Government so easy to target the poor pensioner eho missed pension credit by £1 a week.
Shame on Starmer.

Well you were the one that bought in Starmers work benefits & slagged him off wtf has that got to do with the thread? but its all ok for you to bring in distractions but no one else.

Perhaps if Sunak hadn't wasted so much during Covid and on PPE we wouldn't need to have these cuts?

Like i told you earlier, the Tory proposal was to get rid of WFP completely, they wouldn't deny this, just as a leading Tory thinktank wanted to raise SPA to 71.

Why are you a Tory if you believe in LESS welfare? they have expanded the benefits system far beyond what many would consider a safety net, ie £1000s given to higher rate taxpayers to look after their children.

Utter madness.

I agree - some pensioners are still paying back mortgages too.

No one wants to see this.

But the facts are:

Energy bills are on average over £100 cheaper than last winter.

Full state pension is £900 per year more than last winter. An increase well above inflation.

Those not on full state pension are likely entitled to pension credit and will be getting WFA

Pensioners have more money than they did last winter even if they don't receive WFA.

1 in 10 pensioners has assets over 1m.

Thats disingenuous.

Food and Energy inflation very high, energy still over 50% more than 3 years ago, it still doesn't address the less well off pensioner who is just above PC.

As i said, the best way forward is to bring down energy prices and bring in a tapered system that charges more for high energy uses, people who heat swimming pools of have saunas, very large properties.

That way the tax payer wont be funding company profits.

Where is your evidence that pensioners are an easy target? The WFA is one of the last (if not the last) universal benefits to be touched. Many many things have been cut /made strictly means tested before they've looked at the WFA.

And there is much more uproar about this than there has ever been about cuts to other benefits.

Plus they're a massive burden on the NHS, I'd be embarrassed to take extra handouts I didn't need, personally.

@iwishihadknownmore I agree with you about energy prices.

But regarding inflation - the state pension went up 8.5%, which was much higher than inflation.

I agree.

My sister and husband are too old to get the new state pension so they get much less. It amounts to approx £400 less than the new state pension per month. So £17,600 as opposed to £23,000 pa but it's over the threshold for pension credit .That's a huge difference. They also have medical needs such as diabetes, cancer, imobility so need their heating on much more than you or I. Apart from attendance allowance they get no other help. My sister has a small occupational pension but her husband was self employed so doesn't have a pension. What are they supposed to do? They are not rich or even comfortably off, they get by but the WFA made a difference. Not all pensioners are wealthy. I do agree that it should be targeted but they have set the cut off limit much too high and need to take into account those on the old state pension

@sunseaandsoundingoff so your definition of a 'poor pensioner' is someone who doesn't have £1 million in assets?

And actually, you're wrong. 1 in 4 pensioners is a millionaire

www.telegraph.co.uk/money/pensions/news/number-millionaire-pensioners-quadruples/

I agree with you. My parents got it and their house is worth £1.2m. That isn’t right.