To not understand the uproar over winter fuel allowance being cut?

[virgocatlover]

It's not being cut. The poorest pensioners on pension credit will still get it. It's only being changed so it's no longer a universal payment anymore.

The energy price cap was £1834 October 2023. This October it's £1717. So it's £117 cheaper than it was last winter for average use.

In April 2024 the state pension rose by 8.5% - a rise of around £900 for those on full state pension. It's expected to rise another £400 next April.

Many energy companies still have schemes for those in genuine need. Plus the warm home discount exists for those on a low income.

I understand pensions who receive just state pension and no other income may be annoyed but there has to be a cut somewhere. But pensioners are unlikely to have the expense of rent/ mortgages in retirement which is the biggest expense to those of working age.

However most of the moans I've heard and seen seem to be from the well off pensioners who are cross about losing something. I know a woman who rents out three houses and spends the winter in the Caribbean who is spitting feathers about losing the payment. Another who spent the money on their Christmas booze.

There is so much uproar about this which didn't happen when there were so many other cuts affecting young people/workers/families. All other benefits are means tested, so should WFA.

People still see pensioners as those who fought in the war and counting pennies at the till to pay for their bread and milk. But that's just not the case these days.

You don't understand the uproar over the WFA being withdrawn unless Pensioners receive pension credit? perhaps go away and have a little think then

I reckon this could be a very healthy trend on MN even if nowhere else.

All the Labour supporters on here telling us - reasonably enough - that many OAPs could realise their assets and don’t need state help will soon be saying - reasonably enough - that benefit claimants who smoke, take holidays, have Netflix and big tellys etc should change their lifestyles and take less off the state.

Common sense is bursting out!

I think some of you who think most pensioners are “the wealthiest ever”, ‘live in £million + properties” (ha, bloody ha), “don’t have a mortgage” ( maybe not, but they did once or have to pay rent), “should sell their home to release some capital and go live in a cheaper area” (why should they - would you want to?), etc, etc, will be singing from a different hymn sheet when you reach pension age. Stop being so spitefully ageist.

It's 50 years worth of WFA.

Will you don't cut it whilst simultaneously giving into train drivers and giving Júnior doctors a 20 odd percent pay rise because they've got you over a barrel the optics are terrible

Here it is.

My Mum is 93 has bad arthritis, but because she gets a small pension from my Dads job,is over the threshold for pension credit. And because of the increase in the pension in April now has to pay tax. She should get it because of her age, and medical issue.

I suggest Turn2us, they'll be able to check if she's entitled to any grants. I also suggest her local council, who may have emergency funding.

I think from our research it’s a question of waiting for the county council to hurry up and implement the required grants scheme but thank you anyway

This is one of the most inappropriate uses of lol I've seen, I think.

In 2017.

More recent figures are:

79% own their home
74% of that 79% are unencumbered
That works out at ~58% of over 65s own their homes outright.

Meaning ~42% still have mortgage or rent payments.

There was a link to this earlier on in the thread.

No problem, I also suggest a heated throw. I bought my mum one last Christmas and she loved it. She feels the cold even in summer. It only costs a few pence to run a day.

Exactly this, my 86year old mum recieves £11.88 a month too much to qualify for pension credit, she won't get any help.

But if the boiler breaks down, there's a chunk of that 10k gone.

If their roof fails, there's a chunk of that 10k gone (because insurance companies often use wear and tear as a reason not to pay out on roofing).

If they need to repair any electrics, there's a chunk gone.

You get the idea.

How do they build it back up to continue to also use it for basics?

YABVU. Not all poor pensioners can claim pension credit. My husband is a pensioner but I am not therefore he can't claim PC. I am an unpaid carer and just get Carers' allowance. We depend on getting Winter fuel allowance - I worked out our monthly payments based on us getting it this Winter and now it looks as if we will not have enough credit on our account to see us through the Winter. I am absolutely gutted about this. I voted Labour in the election and now feel utterly betrayed - I emailed my new MP and got no sympathy whatsoever. You are definitely BU

Not having a mortgage and not qualifying for pension credits isn't enough ?
I think we need ti be giving WFP to half the population in that case. There are loads of people in worse situations.

The only ones I feel sorry for, are the pensioners who just miss out on pension credits, because they have a tiny private pension. And some of those will have to pay rent.

Good for them

You do realise, I take it, that the higher rate pension is £221.20 per week which equates to £11,502.40 over 12 months? If this is you're sole income you're basically f**d!
Its also the hypocrisy, M.P.'s can claim up to £3,400 for their heating bills. Stinks to high heaven!

My FIL gets it and he lives in the Middle East. On that basis, totally understand why it being a universal benefit is silly.

MIL however took ill health retirement and lives in council accommodation which she’ll continue to need to pay rent on through her retirement years. Has a long list of medical conditions. She has a partial NHS pension which I assume means she won’t qualify for pension credit and will lose the fuel payment. I can see why people in her situation (and worse - she at least has a council roof over her head) are pretty upset at the changes.

A lot of working people live on less once they've paid mortgage/rent, commuting costs and childcare.

Grow up! The examples you’ve given are few and far between. I wonder if you could live on the old aged pension. It’s interesting we’re told that you need around £22000 a year to live on and yet we expect pensioners to live on half that! Oap’s still have expenses, try adding up what you spend on heating, council tax, phone, internet etc etc. do you think ISO’s want to sit in the house and stare at a wall? I know pensioners that don’t put the heating on until they are freezing, that never buy any luxury items if food, and by that I mean a packet of chocolate biscuits 😱because it’s an extravagance they can do without.

Apparently 74% of people aged 65 and older own their homes outright in England (figure from 2017 but significantly higher than 1993, so only likely to increase). Even if lower, back in 1993 or was still more than half - so the use of “most” was spot on.

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/ageing/articles/livinglonger/changesinhousingtenureovertime#:~:text=Almost%20three%2Dquarters%20(74%25),in%201993%20(Figure%201).

Ok so what about the other 20% you've not accounted for?

I assume they (those not living in homes they own or privately rent) live in council or housing association housing, live with family or live in care homes.

Thankyou !
I agree. All this fuss is engineered to steer our focus away from the obscene profiteering of the power companies who should be forced to reduce their prices .
That is where our protests should be targeted.
I’m very unhappy that the tax I pay is used to subsidise very rich shareholders, be that in the power, water or private housing industries.
Same for universal credit which is a taxpayers gift to all those employers failing to pay their people adequate salaries.

Grow up! The examples you’ve given are few and far between. I wonder if you could live on the old aged pension. It’s interesting we’re told that you need around £22000 a year to live on and yet we expect pensioners to live on half that! Oap’s still have expenses, try adding up what you spend on heating, council tax, phone, internet etc etc. do you think ISO’s want to sit in the house and stare at a wall? I know pensioners that don’t put the heating on until they are freezing, that never buy any luxury items if food, and by that I mean a packet of chocolate biscuits 😱because it’s an extravagance they can do without.

Does that £22k include housing (mortgage and rent costs)? Is that before or after tax?

Yes I could live on £12k a year if I didn't have a mortgage or rent as that's probably what I have left now afyer paying the mortgage and costa related to work (which I wouldn't have if i was retired). And if I had a partner who also brought in £12k a year I certainly could.