To not understand the uproar over winter fuel allowance being cut?

[virgocatlover]

It's not being cut. The poorest pensioners on pension credit will still get it. It's only being changed so it's no longer a universal payment anymore.

The energy price cap was £1834 October 2023. This October it's £1717. So it's £117 cheaper than it was last winter for average use.

In April 2024 the state pension rose by 8.5% - a rise of around £900 for those on full state pension. It's expected to rise another £400 next April.

Many energy companies still have schemes for those in genuine need. Plus the warm home discount exists for those on a low income.

I understand pensions who receive just state pension and no other income may be annoyed but there has to be a cut somewhere. But pensioners are unlikely to have the expense of rent/ mortgages in retirement which is the biggest expense to those of working age.

However most of the moans I've heard and seen seem to be from the well off pensioners who are cross about losing something. I know a woman who rents out three houses and spends the winter in the Caribbean who is spitting feathers about losing the payment. Another who spent the money on their Christmas booze.

There is so much uproar about this which didn't happen when there were so many other cuts affecting young people/workers/families. All other benefits are means tested, so should WFA.

People still see pensioners as those who fought in the war and counting pennies at the till to pay for their bread and milk. But that's just not the case these days.

A lot of the smaller "pensioner" bungalows round my way are currently occupied by young single professionals.

And we know why that is - it's to incentivise them to get a job - or as the Tories put it "make work pay".

Sounds like our neighbour's son. The neighbour was complaining that people keep reporting him...

Agreed.

I would far rather disabled people be given support than wealthy pensioners.

I'm managing. Some of my older friends are not.

They're going to bed early to escape the cold. The extra payment meant that they could give themselves the "luxury" of staying up a bit longer from time to time.

I used to help my parents with their bills (though they didn't know it). Some of my older friends are getting help from their children. Not everyone has children - and some have children who can't afford to help them, of course.

Correction: For compassionate people, means-testing these benefits would be even more unpopular.
In 2023, the UK employment rate for disabled people was 54.2% compared to the rate for people who are not disabled of 82.0%. Disabled people are disadvantaged their entire adult lives trying to get into employment and now you want to means-test their benefits? Nice. Not.

I am in the LCWRA group of UC, and even that is less than a pension (£809pm).
I don't get WFA.
People in LCW get half that again.

Not all.pensuoners are well off.😱

Trouble is they are gradually taking everything away. The TV licence went, now the WFA. What next, the bus pass?
Older people have paid into.the system for years, why shouldn't they get something back.

How sneaky were labour as well?
Didn't put that in the manifesto?

Cut the MPs allowance!!! They get a TV licence!

Well thats the job of opposition is to oppose!!! the Tory proposal was,to remove it from ALL pensioners.

the last Govt to limit arms sales to Israel was the Tories, under Cameron, legal advice has to be followed.

Labour and the unions today are nothing like as they were in the 60s.

You need to move on, Labour are now a centre right party.

You may despise Labour politicians but can you point to anything that improved unders the Tories since 2010?

My own view is the WFA cut will be so watered down as to have been totally pointless, very disappointing Labour chose this to cut, stupid.

So much more needs to be sorted yet all i'm hearing is "the Tories have left the country in such a mess..."

YES WE KNOW!!! thats why we voted you lot in, start sorting it out, lets have some hope!!!!

Because you can't. Move on please.

It may be a little bit of a struggle for some but there is no reason I can see for them to have to turn their heating off for the entire winter period. If you receive £200 WFA it represents less than 2% of a sole pensioner’s income or less than 1% if you are a couple.

🙄

pensioners want benefits to stop for stringers but that didn’t mean the winter fuel allowance benefit - silly

For those just above Pension Credit, the WFA is a significant amount.

Labour have been idiots doing this and i bet they bitterly regret it.

Go after the 570 billion in offshore accounts or the 40 billion tax gap, not the 800 million in WFA.

Talk about giving the Tories an open goal.

Believe it or not, they are both getting work. The former does gardens for cash in hand and labouring for a relative. The latter also does labouring from time to time.

Of course, none of their pay is going through the books. As I already said, each has a council flat all paid for by those of us who do pay our way.

I keep getting their mother telling me "how glad the boys would be" to do jobs around the house and garden for me... I've managed to resist thus far.

I’ve just demonstrated that as a percentage of their yearly income it is not a significant amount. And of course a large number of pensioners just above the pension credit level will also have other sources of income so the signifcance of the WFA to them in percentage terms of their overall income will be even less.

It's a disgrace.

My friend became disabled very suddenly but it took over a year to get an assessment (covid era). They expected her to live on less than £400 a month. She lost her home because there was no mortgage support and was suicidal. Absolutely dreadful state of affairs.

The vast majority of pensioners own their homes outright and as a demographic are wealthier. Money needs to be targeted at those most in need and as a whole that is not pensioners.

The winter fuel allowance means rest is too low. Pip is unreachable. We’re suppose to be supporting people who cannot support themselves.

You are not compassionate or “nice” when you support one benefit being means tested but draw the line at another just because the person is old.

They hardly have their heating on at the moment as it is. Don't you understand that?

I'm far from destitute, but I'm resisting putting my heating on. My even older friends are in a worse situation than I am.

One lady has survived cancer. She's spending the winter months in bed for as long as she can. Also going to church venues, etc where people are getting the offer of a cup of tea in the warmth.

Labour have been idiots doing this and i bet they bitterly regret it.

The Government threw it out like red meat to (some of) their supporters. However much it gets altered now, or even if it's dropped, the impression of who they are has been created.

I think it's more complicated than just being a percentage of annual income. Some pensioners are very frugal and if money is tight they may see heating as an extravagance they can manage without, even if its detrimental to their health. The fact that this money is provided specifically as a fuel allowance is almost giving them permission to put the heating on. I have no doubt that some pensioners will do without heating this winter and that should not be allowed to happen.

Well that's good to hear (or it would be if they weren't also claiming benefits) but could they reliably arrive at work every day, five days a week? From my experience of alcoholics and drug addicts, sadly, they couldn't.

It's not happening- it's scaremongering.

the Tory proposal was,to remove it from ALL pensioners.

That’s untrue. Even when in opposition Darren Jones objected - with what turned out to be truly outstanding hypocrisy - he only objected to what he believed was the Tories thinking about removing the WFA from some pensioners. As it happens the Tories removed WFA from exactly zero pensioners.

Yes, oppositions oppose. But they shouldn’t lie or be rank hypocrites.

Labour’s in power now. They’re accountable, not anyone else.

The first two sentences of your post don't make sense.

Re-read mine. I made the point that neither PIP or its RETIREMENT-AGE EQUIVALENT (AA) should be means-tested - that is supporting those who cannot support themselves, of ALL ages.