To not understand the uproar over winter fuel allowance being cut?

[virgocatlover]

It's not being cut. The poorest pensioners on pension credit will still get it. It's only being changed so it's no longer a universal payment anymore.

The energy price cap was £1834 October 2023. This October it's £1717. So it's £117 cheaper than it was last winter for average use.

In April 2024 the state pension rose by 8.5% - a rise of around £900 for those on full state pension. It's expected to rise another £400 next April.

Many energy companies still have schemes for those in genuine need. Plus the warm home discount exists for those on a low income.

I understand pensions who receive just state pension and no other income may be annoyed but there has to be a cut somewhere. But pensioners are unlikely to have the expense of rent/ mortgages in retirement which is the biggest expense to those of working age.

However most of the moans I've heard and seen seem to be from the well off pensioners who are cross about losing something. I know a woman who rents out three houses and spends the winter in the Caribbean who is spitting feathers about losing the payment. Another who spent the money on their Christmas booze.

There is so much uproar about this which didn't happen when there were so many other cuts affecting young people/workers/families. All other benefits are means tested, so should WFA.

People still see pensioners as those who fought in the war and counting pennies at the till to pay for their bread and milk. But that's just not the case these days.

If someone had said on here that mums were spending the Child Benefit on getting their nails done there would be an uproar

That’s not the case if they have a full working history. The additional state pension they would be entitled to would top up for periods that they were contracted into the additional state pension scheme (essentially whilst they weren’t in an occupational scheme) taking them above the limit. It’s very possible for people on the old state pension to not be eligible for pension credit.

I have elderly parents on pension credit, they will be keeping their £300 winter fuel payment which is good news. If they were to lose it they would still be able to have the heating on - they may have had to forego certain little treats but they would not allow themselves to freeze to death for the sake of £300.

They did and so did Boris when the Tories capped CB. Apparantly we all spent it on skiing trips and wine!

It doesn't mean much, it's just those you know. There will be many who do find it hard.

Pensioners on a full pension will not (if they manage their budgets sensibly) freeze to death for the sake of £300. For most pensioners I believe the WFA is actually worth only £200 or 55 pence a day. Their pensions will rise in April by £400 per year, or nearly £1.10 per day and hopefully fuel prices will drop again then too. Incidentally there are 800,000 pensioners who should be claiming pension credits but who aren’t for whatever reason. More should be done to encourage those pensioners to claim it.

I've read every single post on 21 pages of 23 so far - no-one is "cheering" for the further impoverishment of pensioners on low income. No-one.

April is past winter although it was a recent headline to make people think it's ok to wait and struggle through it until then

Just to add for clarity Pension Credit takes into account all savings above £10,000. Those with additional occupational pensions and savings don’t automatically get free TV licenses.

State pension is less than 12k per year

Many elderly people are ill and not very mobile & sit or sleep for long periods of time each day. Therefore they do not generate much of their own body temperature.
They need their heating on more than someone who is more mobile.

Could you live on less than 12k per year ?

I don't think that it should have been cut !

Increase the pension higher !

Yes, a lot - around 1.7 million.

We can agree to disagree on that.

Or you could quote the posts that are "cheering".

No, I won't be reading this whole thread again and displaying posts that offend me for your verdict. Move on please.

You'll get flayed for the view "YES, absolutely the WFA has to go" because it's no more measured than pensioners who say it must stay. Both views are unfair and intergenerationally divisive.
11.2m pensioners received the WFA and it's estimated that 8m of them didn't need it, so it's right that it be means-tested - it's simply wrong to give money to 8m people who don't need it. That leaves 3.2m pensioners who do need it, but Rachel Reeves has only accounted for 1.5m of them (the ones eligible for Pension Credit). That leaves 1.7m who also need it, but because their low incomes are slightly above the PC eligibility threshold, they won't get it. THIS is what people of all ages (but obviously moreso the affected pensioners) are vexed about - because that's an awful lot of pensioners who are really going to struggle this winter. Martin Lewis (MoneySavingExpert) has made a great suggestion to bring in most, if not all, of these 1.7m by extending the WFA to pensioners living in properties in CT bands A - D as research has shown that these low-income pensioners live in low CT band properties. Furthermore, there will be little administrative burden (and cost) because the data about these pensioners is already held by local authorities. Unfortunately, so far, Rachel Reeves isn't listening to him. I just hope she does - for the sake of 1.7m older people.

Oh "end of discussion". You have spoken so no need to discuss further.

Just because all the pensioners you know spends it on other things does not mean that all pensioners do. I know pensioners that don't need it but I also know ones that do.

It’s just money at the end of the day isn’t it? Unless the pensioner is spending less than £300 a year on fuel in the first place

And people who might spend up to 30 years in retirement are allowed to have a holiday during that time and also have a pet

Why isn’t PIP means tested? It costs the country far more billions than the winter fuel allowance. That should have been the first thing targeted. I do wonder why something which in comparison costs far less and is just as important has been taken away from people.

Exactly. 8m pensioners don't need it, but 3.2m do and with the eligibility for it being aligned to Pension Credit, only 1.5m will receive it (actually, less than half this figure because we know around 880,000 who are eligible for PC don't claim it). This leaves 1.7m who also need it, but whose income is just above the PC eligibility threshold, so they will lose it and will struggle to stay warm this winter. And this absolutely SHOULD be discussed until Rachel Reeves takes action on Martin Lewis' suggestion to extend it to pensioners living in properties in CT bands A - D (which will capture a lot, if not all, of this 1.7m).

Because you would in effect be means testing people's disabilities and that is so wrong.
PIP is given to enable disabled people to be on a level playing field with people who are not disabled. Being disabled should not cost money because it is not a choice.

Nor is its retirement age counterpart, Attendance Allowance. However, these are disability benefits which were designed to help claimants with the costs of long-term illness or disability so that they can live a more normal life. I think means-testing these benefits would be even more unpopular.

My parents will have their WFA stopped, but neither are on pension credit... in fact my mum still works anyway.
They always put it straight on the gas meter anyway so it was one less bill to worry about it. My dad is the the type to have the heating on full blast whilst sitting about in t-shirt and shorts.
They will cope without it, but of course many pensioners wont, and that is a huge worry. And totally understandable that people are upset about it.

Not for me. We’re not talking about a small amount. Why is getting old any different? Less chance, opportunity for work. Driving, walking, looking after yourself. All an issue with age. If you’re going to means test benefits it should be for all benefits.

I've had to look into this.

My house has 3 bedrooms because we added an extra room and wet room so that we could move in my mum. Later, my husband needed to use the wet room.

If I downsize, I'll have difficulty finding a bungalow in an area that's cheap enough for me to buy - I might get £150k for this place if I'm lucky. I doubt that I'll find a new home in move-in condition in a central location for that money.

At the moment, there's a bus stop within walking distance and a bus that will take me to the town centre and the doctor's surgery. I have a downstairs bedroom here and a wet room. Moving simply doesn't make economic sense for me.

The house will be sold to pay for my care when I move into a nursing home.

A single person on UC is expected to survive on less than half that.