To not understand the uproar over winter fuel allowance being cut?

[virgocatlover]

It's not being cut. The poorest pensioners on pension credit will still get it. It's only being changed so it's no longer a universal payment anymore.

The energy price cap was £1834 October 2023. This October it's £1717. So it's £117 cheaper than it was last winter for average use.

In April 2024 the state pension rose by 8.5% - a rise of around £900 for those on full state pension. It's expected to rise another £400 next April.

Many energy companies still have schemes for those in genuine need. Plus the warm home discount exists for those on a low income.

I understand pensions who receive just state pension and no other income may be annoyed but there has to be a cut somewhere. But pensioners are unlikely to have the expense of rent/ mortgages in retirement which is the biggest expense to those of working age.

However most of the moans I've heard and seen seem to be from the well off pensioners who are cross about losing something. I know a woman who rents out three houses and spends the winter in the Caribbean who is spitting feathers about losing the payment. Another who spent the money on their Christmas booze.

There is so much uproar about this which didn't happen when there were so many other cuts affecting young people/workers/families. All other benefits are means tested, so should WFA.

People still see pensioners as those who fought in the war and counting pennies at the till to pay for their bread and milk. But that's just not the case these days.

I agree, getting old is absolutely not a choice. It's a natural part of life and means you're no longer able to work to finance your life.

Hence, you make provision for your old age during your working life. I'd figured that out by the time I was 10 years old. My parents ensured I had an (age appropriate) grasp of basic financies; tax, mortgages, pensions.

Whilst there will always be people, through no fault of their own, who simply cannot provide for their retirement and will have to rely on the State, it just amazes me at the sheer numbers of people who don't even consider it until it's too late.

Im not being gleeful or smug here (my own personal private pension isn't brilliant), but I'm genuinely horrified that this is people's (including several dear friends) attitude and level of financial education and worried for them!

There's a massive net deficit for the State Pension and it's going to 'come home to roost' at some point. We all need to wake up!

Here's a rough breakdown and a bit of a reality check regarding the (post 2016) State Pension.

The State Pension is currently £11.5k a year and can be claimed from age 66 (provided you've paid in the full 35 years NI contributions and it's pro rata calculated for those with fewer contributing years). Assuming most people will claim this for, say, 20 years (ie live until age 86), that's a total pension payments of some £230k (in today's money)

Bearing in mind the average UK gross salary is currently (2023) £34963, whoch equates to £1791 a year in NI contributions on said salary. So, in today's money, you'd have paid in £62685 over those 35 years required for the full state pension.

Please let that sink in.

On average, you're receiving about 4 times as much as you've put in.

This massive deficit has to be paid for, so I'm sorry but WFA on top of this is just unaffordable.

I would really miss the bus pass . Incidentally, I'm sure I could remember elderly relatives talking about their bus passes many years ago so I'm not sure how long they have been about. Before I had my pass I would buy a day ticket and do everything I had to on the same day. EG dentists ,post office ,shopping,library ,chemist's. It saved a lot as I have to catch several buses. Not sure I could do all that now. So I would miss it . But If it goes,it goes . As long as the cuts are shared by everyone , I can accept that .

To be fair though, that's because you and your friends are among the 8m pensioners who don't need it (as are my husband and all our friends), but there are 1.7m people on low incomes, but not quite low enough to claim Pension Credit, who do need it and will really miss it, and they are most definitely vocal about it (and rightly so).

You quoted stats as what was needed. I and other posters have told you facts we know, that we can't evidence because this is an anonymous forum and if I put my uncles medical records and bank statements on here, it'd be a bit outing.

You've called us liars. You told me I assumed things about people on benefits who I don't know when I was talking about my uncle.

Your inability to accept people's real life experiences without evidence is not me being too trusting or stupid. It's very much a you problem. But you are ridiculously naive if you think that all of these people telling you that they know benefit cheats are lying. Just because it's difficult to do it doesn't mean it doesn't happen, or that there isn't more of it than you are aware of. That's just a very sheltered way of looking at life.

@MumOfTwoLittleOnes24 I agree there is a massive deficit.
But there should have been a way to means test this.
They should also stop paying funded childcare
Benefits to people of working age who have never had a job without a valid reason

And I should point out that there will be many people who've acquired pensionable years towards their State Pension who've not paid in during those years (ie Stay At Home Parents with children under the age of 12 years).

Im not saying these people don't deserve those contributing years, just that they won't be actually paying NI contributions for the 'contribution year' that they will be acquiring. Hence, their financial contribution to NI will be even less than the figure I previously gave in my last post.

About 80% of pensioners are homeowners. That’s most.

Yes it's me who is sheltered. I'm the one who believes everything everyone tells me online.

By the way, if a Nigerian Prince contacts you via email and tells you that he needs your bank details to transfer some money. Do not give your bank details - it's a scam.

Well if they could not find evidence they must be pretty stupid. His anxiety is meant to be so bad he can't leave his house and yet he leaves it every day. So immediately that means the benefits he gets for not being able to work are fraudulent.

Also really not difficult to find out that he is working

It is a distraction that has been badly communicated. If they had announced it at the same time as announcing the triple lock increase, and pointing out how much more the pension increase is when linked to wages rather than inflation the uproar would have been mitigated. Meanwhile no-one, not even the DM is talking about the cancelling of the cap on social care costs, and no plan on how to fund social care for elderly people.
Just out of curiosity I have calculated that in the last 3 years, my pension this year will be about £1,500 more than it was. It would have been £1,800 with the WHA. Sounds a lot, but still only £12,000 a year. Despite being extra careful with fuel use, the whole of the increase has been eaten up with increase in my gas, electricity and council tax. So, if I was just on the state pension, I would have to find the increases in everything else from the rapidly reducing residue. Fortunately, I have savings and a small private pension so I am not as badly off as many others are. Just because all the pensioners you know spend it on Christmas booze etc, doesn't mean that thousands of older people will really struggle with this cut.

This .

I'm astounded that Labour the party of the vulnerable are slashing the WFA. Pension credit cut off is far too low , a lot of pensioners are going to be in a terrible situation this winter .

A lot of pensioners do not receive £11.5K. They were born before after April 1953, However men born after April 1951are eligible for the higher rate. Women born after 1950 to 1960 had to wait for any pension, on a sliding scale of age and time waited.
So many women are on a lower pension.

I actually have never said to believe everything everyone tells you online. But what reason would any of the posters here have for lying to you? What would they gain by making up people they know who are committing benefit fraud?

You just jumped straight to us lying. For having a discussion on a forum. Believe us, don't, whatever. But you don't have to be horrible to people. Says a lot more about you than us.

When does Pension Credit kick in?

Absolutely agree. Every pensioner I know spends it on stuff other than energy. Holiday, vet fees etc.

It needed means resting and it is being. End of discussion.

@poppyzbrite4

Pension Credit tops up:
• your weekly income to £218.15 if you’re single
• your joint weekly income to £332.95 if you have a partner
If your income is higher, you might still be eligible for Pension Credit if you have a disability, you care for someone, you have savings or you have housing costs.
So anyone with an income below £218.15 a week (approx £11,336 a year) should be able to claim pension credit as long as their savings are under £10k.

www.gov.uk/pension-credit/eligibility

Pensioners born before 1953 are on the old SP, which pays £169.50 per week for a singleton. They are eligible for pension credit, which tops up income to the standard £221, and also brings them into eligibility for reduced/zero council tax. If old enough, it also means you don't pay for a TV license.

Well said

So those women with under 11k would be entitled to the heating allowance and pension credit.

Thank you for the info.

I'm sure it's been said but the cut off is too low.

I think you're looking at the wrong people.

Pensioners who are just on the basic state pension have worked the many years required.

Pension credit is below the number of years

In today's money. But due to inflation, today's younger people will get paid more and be taxed on higher earnings so it's like comparing apples and oranges. The current pensioners are being paid from working people whose incomes have gone up from when the pensioners were working. A lot of people don't get paid anywhere near average pay so they would've paid less NI than your figures. Should we punish them by saying they are due less because they paid less NI in an earlier age when wages were lower and have increased somewhat due to inflationary pressures? This all seems to me to be the politics of division. Current workers should be paid enough to live well. Older people shouldn't get things snatched off them while some global behemoth organisations operating in this country hardly pay any tax. Well that's what I think anyway

@poppyzbrite4 and also (probably) not required to pay council tax.

In case the information is useful, anyone with a dementia diagnosis is also excused council tax from the date of diagnosis. DMIL had several years of payments refunded.

Sorry about your MIL but I'm happy to hear she's had a refund.

Yes I imagine on PC those women (who I'm concerned about) will be entitled to CT exemption and HB.