To not understand the uproar over winter fuel allowance being cut?

[virgocatlover]

It's not being cut. The poorest pensioners on pension credit will still get it. It's only being changed so it's no longer a universal payment anymore.

The energy price cap was £1834 October 2023. This October it's £1717. So it's £117 cheaper than it was last winter for average use.

In April 2024 the state pension rose by 8.5% - a rise of around £900 for those on full state pension. It's expected to rise another £400 next April.

Many energy companies still have schemes for those in genuine need. Plus the warm home discount exists for those on a low income.

I understand pensions who receive just state pension and no other income may be annoyed but there has to be a cut somewhere. But pensioners are unlikely to have the expense of rent/ mortgages in retirement which is the biggest expense to those of working age.

However most of the moans I've heard and seen seem to be from the well off pensioners who are cross about losing something. I know a woman who rents out three houses and spends the winter in the Caribbean who is spitting feathers about losing the payment. Another who spent the money on their Christmas booze.

There is so much uproar about this which didn't happen when there were so many other cuts affecting young people/workers/families. All other benefits are means tested, so should WFA.

People still see pensioners as those who fought in the war and counting pennies at the till to pay for their bread and milk. But that's just not the case these days.

If they aren’t going to tax the super rich properly (or at all really) then they have to find the money from somewhere and statistically pensioners are the most well off age group, so it seems fairer than most of the alternatives.

Unfortunately properly means-testing it would be prohibitively expensive, so we have a not-ideal compromise.

There is more than enough money floating around so that no-one should be in any danger of dying from the cold. The fact that they are should make everyone extremely angry, but I’m sure someone will come along soon and say we can’t tax fantastically wealthy people for ‘reasons’ (mostly based on articles in newspapers owned by, you guessed it, the fantastically wealthy).

Well do explain why having £5.76 a week less than you had last year (when bills were actually higher) means you can’t turn the heating on this year.

Or, you can listen to people telling you their experience AND look at stats and studies and come to a logical conclusion. Rather than saying that everyone online is a liar (do you have any evidence or stats to back that up, by the way?).

Heating bills were higher last year. Others were not. That's why.

I understand it was more cost effective to just pay a blanket payment than the cost of administering a means tested benefit. and I assume they have gone for pension credit as a cut off point so as not to have to implement means testing.
But the main issue seems to be that cut-off point.
If you are just a few quid over the cut off point you not only don't get the WFA, but you also have to pay your council tax (some councils give discretionary payments, but not all) and TV license.
Someone £1 under the cut-off gets around £200 extra a month in various subsidies and benefits compared to someone £1 over.
But tapering and having to calculate each payment would probably not be cost-effective.

Sigh. Means testing means that pensioners on just the state pension are cut off from this benefit because they may be a £1 over the set limit. There isn't any lee-way. Also, many women are affected as if they are on the state pension that pension will normally be lower than a man's, because of broken insurance record or (diminishingly, now) because they paid a 'wife's' stamp. Also, all pensioners have paid their taxes and continue to pay them, but are not getting many benefits. Also, political point, the well-off have to feel they are getting something for their taxes and NI so that they continue to accept paying for our state funded health service and welfare state. No-one is happy that you pay in and don't get anything out.
Also there are easier things to cut - maybe the train drivers should not have got a pay rise; maybe the government should have let them drive the railway operators to bankruptcy and nationalised the railways (cheaper all round since we would not be subsidising the railway company's dividend payment), or maybe paid NHS workers properly rather than Speenhamlanding their salaries i.e. giving working tax credits (which are part of the welfare state for businesses), which would save money on means testing bureaucracy.
The old have traditionally been seen as an easy target. But the old vote, the young don't bother.

I, recently widowed, having lost almost half my income because my husband's state pension died with him, will now take a further cut because I do not receive any benefits, but only my state pension - which is lower than a man's in general because I have a broken NI record.
Looked at that way, I am not surprised pensioners are spitting blood.

I haven’t read replies, hopefully someone has already explained.

Pension credit (PC) is a benefit for people who haven’t made enough NI contributions to get a full state pension.

People who have made enough contributions get state pension. State pension is under £5 above the threshold for qualifying for pension credit or anything means tested. Meaning that they have less than £5 more than someone on PC but will see no money from the winter fuel payment. How is this fair?

So, we are in a situation where people who haven’t paid in enough are being rewarded and people who have are seriously short of money because they’re going to lose hundreds for the crime of being less than £5 over the threshold for means tested benefits (including PC).

Not everyone had the possibility of having a private pension and not everyone was well paid enough to contribute enough to have enough to make up for this loss now.

I’d be seriously p**d off too.

Sure, don’t give it to wealthy pensioners but to take it away from people who have less than a fiver a month more than the official minimum to live on is a crime imho.

Agree

Sadiq Khan just announced that London primary school children are going to be receiving free school meals again this year, saving families up to £500 a year - less than £1.50 day. What's the point?Why does any family need that tiny amount? He says it's so no child goes hungry, but aren't families just whinging about the cost of living and shouldn't we end the policy?

Absolutely this

DM has coal fired heating. Her price of a bag of coal certainly isn’t going down this year. She has to stay in all day on the day that they are due to come and stand and watch them deliver it otherwise they rip her off and only give her three bags instead of four at a time. Because she’s 85 and they can

My DPs were working class, they didn't get big salaries they could save from for their old age, when they retired it was state pension and a small top up from my Dad's private pension, so yes, money was tight. They were just over the pension credit threshold so they managed as best they could, so for them the winter fuel allowance made a difference. Is this what we now think is fair- you work for years and years and have no money to make your retirement a little easier?

I think that’s called a strawman argument but I will answer anyway. Free school meals ensure that the poorest children get at least one decent meal a day, saving their parents money is not the issue - healthy, engaged pupils is the issue, children perform better in school when they are not starving.

Child poverty has risen by millions over the past 14 years. Fuel poverty is more in families with young children than any other demographic.
These families should be getting all the help they need, not pensioners, the vast majority of whom of do not need it.

Such as?

People who make claims, should be able to back up those claims with facts. I said it's not easy to get disability payments for made up disabilities because you need ongoing medical proof. That's a fact. If you check the procedure for disability payments, you need evidence of the disability.

I'm not claiming that the majority of claimants are making up claims. I don't dispute that some might be, however it's difficult to do so.

I don't believe what some random on the internet tells me as a fact. I advise you to stop doing so.

@poppyzbrite4 I'm not making it up though.
People cheat the system
People who can work choose not to
People have children they can't afford
I honestly don't know why you think these things don't happen

It’s not just for people who haven’t made enough contributions, pensioners on Attendance Allowance can also qualify for it but it is means tested so only the less well off will get it.

Is this your dad's State Pension? If so, why is it so low? (£500pm equates to just £115.38pw, yet the maximum old basic SP [pre-2016] is currently £169.50pw and the new SP [post-2016] is currently £221.20pw.)

Report him

@SweetcornFritter

Other bills have gone up food, council tax, water rates, I could go on, so they have less in their pockets for heating regardless if it’s decreased.
Plus the standing charges haven’t decreased, they cripple some before even turning the heating on.
I’m not saying WFA solved all problems but it did help if your really struggling.

Exactly. You care about children's lives and you can see the value in society trying to make sure they stay healthy. Now apply that level of consideration to elderly people.

Pensioners buying nice Christmas presents?! Bring back hanging….!

I can’t believe you posted that with no irony at all

Older people stay healthier when they’re not freezing to death. The WFA ensures that the poorest ones can help to heat their homes. Surely you must see the analogy

You understand that that's not what the allowance is for, right?