To not understand the uproar over winter fuel allowance being cut?

[virgocatlover]

It's not being cut. The poorest pensioners on pension credit will still get it. It's only being changed so it's no longer a universal payment anymore.

The energy price cap was £1834 October 2023. This October it's £1717. So it's £117 cheaper than it was last winter for average use.

In April 2024 the state pension rose by 8.5% - a rise of around £900 for those on full state pension. It's expected to rise another £400 next April.

Many energy companies still have schemes for those in genuine need. Plus the warm home discount exists for those on a low income.

I understand pensions who receive just state pension and no other income may be annoyed but there has to be a cut somewhere. But pensioners are unlikely to have the expense of rent/ mortgages in retirement which is the biggest expense to those of working age.

However most of the moans I've heard and seen seem to be from the well off pensioners who are cross about losing something. I know a woman who rents out three houses and spends the winter in the Caribbean who is spitting feathers about losing the payment. Another who spent the money on their Christmas booze.

There is so much uproar about this which didn't happen when there were so many other cuts affecting young people/workers/families. All other benefits are means tested, so should WFA.

People still see pensioners as those who fought in the war and counting pennies at the till to pay for their bread and milk. But that's just not the case these days.

DH and i are in a one bedroom SH flat He is 74 We have no children. Im child free by choice. Are you saying people who dont have living proof that they have had sex without contraception shouldnt be in social housing? How secure is the tenants job? can i have link to thread please?

Well you don't need it do you, I don't need it either but can't you understand it's not you or your friends we are discussing here, it's the people that have the least pension income just above the cut off. It's not all about you.

This argument doesn't make sense. A pensioner aged 75 SHOULD be wealthier than someone aged 25. They'll have spent their whole life working, getting promoted, saving and buying a house while the 25 year old has probably only been working for a couple of years. Those same pensioners will have subsided the 25 year olds since they were born - healthcare, education, facilities, even things like sure start that are sadly victims to cuts long-ago. Is the 25 year old never going to be expected to be part of society and the responsibilities it entails despite having reaped all the benefits?

Correct.

Correct.

Rachel Reeves is removing it because she wants to, an aim that's been on public record for a decade https://www.thenational.scot/news/24547598.unearthed-rachel-reeves-clips-undermines-winter-fuel-payment-claim/

I agree it's right to remove it from those who don't need it, but I think the threshold should be higher for cutting it off but what figure is the right cut off? Someone out there who is on the wrong side of the figure is always going to feel agreeved and hard done by. The gvmt can't win.

Nobody lives on state pension alone, which is £948.04 pcm, they would receive pension credit and some other enhancement to bring their income up to a certain level

Sorry but that’s completely wrong. Pensioners in receipt of full new state pension are not eligible for pension credit. I speak from experience. My state pension is my sole income.

Is there a possibility he was joking? (Like: Oasis are going back on tour because they're losing the WFA ... 😂😉)

Doesn't change the current fact that they don't need several hundred pounds of taxpayer monies now.

It's not about feeling 'aggrieved' but about not feeling cold. That's the nub so start there when working out the cut off. Plenty of experts to help with the figures, but it sure as hell isn't at basic pension.

You can make statistics show what you want too. They can be manipulated to show what you are trying to prove.

For example the stats provided on this thread show that 79% of over 65s own their own home (74% of those unencumbered which is actually only ~58%, much lower than it sounds when you say it the other way). What those stats don't show is how many of those people are just above the pension credit threshold. They don't show how many of those are recieving income other than the state pension. They don't show how many of those people are carers for even more elderly people or vulnerable children.

The stats that show unemployment or those in receipt of benefits don't show how many are working cash in hand under the radar because no studies could possibly know this. If the ONS did a survey, how many people are going to say "yeah I'm screwing over the system"? Or if asked at benefits reviews?

90% of people 65-79 live in under-occupied housing, with over 50% living in homes with two or more excess bedrooms. If they are finding it so hard to pay for their heating, why aren't they moving to smaller properties?

Especially when younger people are struggling to get housing and we're having to build more and more housing, with the environmental disbenefits that brings?

Of course, elderly people are entitled to stay in their big properties if they want but it's not right that the rest of the population has to subsidise that choice.

(Source: ilcuk.org.uk/shortage-of-right-size-homes-harms-health/#:~:text=Nearly%20nine%20in%2010%20people,with%203%20or%20more%20bedrooms.)

A sliding scale and some notice would have been good. £12000 a year cut off isn’t a lot to live off if you are still paying a mortgage/rent plus council tax

Because it's also not cost effective to downsize anymore. By the time they've found a smaller property, sold theirs, paid fees and stamp duty and moving costs, how much of the equity they've built up in the property have they lost? Longer term, they may feel better knowing that if they need to pay for care costs, they have that extra they can call on.

Of course I have made a call and reported him online, more than once, to HMRC and DWP. It makes me so angry. He is raking in money with his benefits and working Mon-Fri and not having to pay tax or national insurance.

YANBU other groups have had cuts to universal benefits eg. higher earners child benefit. So many policies have benefitted or protected older people, compared to young people.

The article you've linked to literally says that older people are stuck in unsuitable homes because of a lack of retirement and smaller properties to suit their needs. But sure, make out it's their own bloody fault if they can't afford to stay warm in winter. Lovely.

£300 a year (the loss of the winter fuel payment to most pensioners) amounts to less than a £1 a day, or the price of a bottle of cheapish wine per week. I don’t see why some pensioners are claiming they will have to go without heating this winter because they can’t afford to lose less than a pound a day from their weekly budget. Their fuel bills will be slightly cheaper than this time last year and they will be getting a pay rise in April too! Call me horribly callous by all means, but I do think there’s a lot of unnecessary whingeing going on about this from some quarter.

90% of people 65-79 live in under-occupied housing, with over 50% living in homes with two or more excess bedrooms. If they are finding it so hard to pay for their heating, why aren't they moving to smaller properties?

I'm a lot of cases it's because there are no suitable smaller properties.

Right, so we judge on what people say on the internet. It makes sense.

Fully agree. This is the first year i would have received it, having just reached pension age, but I accept the fact that cuts have to be made somewhere. I have another pension and so does my husband so we certainly don't need it. I feel sorry for those just over the threshold for receiving benefits.

I think that the problem is this...

Govt "Train drivers on £65k - here, have some more money. Climate crisis - here, have some more money. Ukraine - here, have some more money. Immigrants coming across - here, have some of our money. France - you know we're paying you to stop the boats? Here, have some more money. Pensioners on £218.15 a week. You will be grateful for that pittance and by the way, we need your winter fuel allowance to pay for the aforementioned"

@SweetcornFritter says someone who has no clue what a difference £7 a week or £28 a month means to some of the poorest people in our society.

Well if that is true it's ridiculous. The WFA is £200. How on earth does that stop them going on a cruise?

If they were going to a caravan in Skegness for a week I could believe it