To not understand the uproar over winter fuel allowance being cut?

[virgocatlover]

It's not being cut. The poorest pensioners on pension credit will still get it. It's only being changed so it's no longer a universal payment anymore.

The energy price cap was £1834 October 2023. This October it's £1717. So it's £117 cheaper than it was last winter for average use.

In April 2024 the state pension rose by 8.5% - a rise of around £900 for those on full state pension. It's expected to rise another £400 next April.

Many energy companies still have schemes for those in genuine need. Plus the warm home discount exists for those on a low income.

I understand pensions who receive just state pension and no other income may be annoyed but there has to be a cut somewhere. But pensioners are unlikely to have the expense of rent/ mortgages in retirement which is the biggest expense to those of working age.

However most of the moans I've heard and seen seem to be from the well off pensioners who are cross about losing something. I know a woman who rents out three houses and spends the winter in the Caribbean who is spitting feathers about losing the payment. Another who spent the money on their Christmas booze.

There is so much uproar about this which didn't happen when there were so many other cuts affecting young people/workers/families. All other benefits are means tested, so should WFA.

People still see pensioners as those who fought in the war and counting pennies at the till to pay for their bread and milk. But that's just not the case these days.

Also, I don't think ANY people say you can't cheat the benefits system, let alone "many". And there is more sophisticated, large scale defrauding of the benefit system than a few individuals getting away with claiming sickness benefits when they're perfectly well.

Couldn't turn it on last year either .

It's horrifying that there are people who would think never mind 'say out loud' that pensioners shouldn't get all the help they need, but you just did.

The full state pension rose £900 this year (so the pension credit payment rose too). Other things have also risen with inflation but the state pension increase was much higher than inflation due to the triple lock.

Pensioners will have more money this winter than they did last winter even if they no longer receive the WFA. Plus a £400 increase is expected in April.

Yes! I’m a pensioner! It was tongue in cheek, right?

You need to inform the authorities with your evidence. There's no point telling me.

You will all be old one day, unless you die first, of course. Only then will you know what it’s like.

My £200 used to arrive early November and it meant I didn't have to worry about the winter fuel bills and by the end of February it was gone.

I was curious so I looked it up. It does seem to be true:

"There are almost 7 million homes in England headed by someone aged 65 or over. In total, 80% of those homes are owner occupied (5.5 million) and almost all of those (75%) are owned outright with no mortgage."

(From an org called Aging Better)

You advise me? To stop telling people my experience? You don't believe it, despite not being able to make a logical argument other than "it's difficult to do so". But that doesn't mean it's not true, or a fact, that these people I know are doing what I'm saying.

I don't believe that people can be so arrogant that only their experiences can be correct. But here you are, advising us that it is.

@virgocatlover take the tax off that £900 then WFA, how much better off are pensions this year really with all the other increases in bills?

Good god what planet do you live on?

Have you ever been inside a food bank? Ever seen how many people, really elderly ones, have to depend on charity to survive?

Don't tell me this wooly "oh they'll likely entitled to...." because a lot of them aren't.

Any one who's getting just state pension and nothing else is rarely entitled to a single penny of benefits. And anyone getting full state pension of £221 a week doesn't qualify for pension credit.

Could you live on £221 a week? For everything? That is just over £11500 a year!!

How would you feel if your employer said suddenly "I've decided you don't need so much pay so I'm cutting yours.

The very cheapest flat I've heard of in our area (studio flat so no separate bedroom) is £600. So that's more than half their pension for a month. Electricity, gas, water, council tax - even assuming you could get all that for £400 means you'll have a pittance left for food.

Oh and don't forget you'll have to pay income tax on some of that now too!! And forget about anything else like dealing with dentists (even on the NHS), glasses, clothing.

Oh and it would be so lovely to buy the grandkids a little something at Christmas, do I do that or starve while I freeze!!?!

I'm a pensioner and still paying a mortgage.

People receiving only state pension won't be paying tax.

But I know of a single mum who has expensive hair and beauty treatments and several expensive holidays a year. Does this mean that many other familes do not struggle to feed and clothe their children? I know there are people who have retired on very good pensions. Often couples . Own homes outright and are still in good health.I personally know a few .But they possibly had very different chances in life ( which is not to say they haven't worked hard and don't deserve it) or better luck. There are many reasons. But it doesn't mean that some older people aren't struggling. You just never know. For example I never felt the cold until a couple of years ago when I suddenly developed pain and stiffness in my joints . So now heating has become a worry. Noone can see the future . I agree there has to be a cut off. It just seemed a bit sudden and badly thought out .

Martin Lewis' suggestion is to pay the WFA to pensioners on Pension Credit AND extend it to pensioners living in properties in CT bands A - D (not C) as research has shown that these are the properties where the 1.5m pensioners who are just above the PC eligibility threshold live. The point about achieving the means-testing this way is that this information is already available (the former from the DWP and the latter from local authorities) so there wouldn't be a high additional administrative burden (and associated cost).

Many disabled people live on much less. So why is there no uproar about that? We don't get a winter fuel allowance either

Exactly. Pension Credit is already seriously under-claimed by pensioners who are eligible (the claim rate has been stubbornly low at just shy of 60% for the last 10 years). Making people claim WFA would be disastrous.

@virgocatlover yes but if your just over £12500 with a small private pension your not exactly well off and will be paying tax on that extra amount.

You would only be paying tax on the money over £12500, not the whole amount. So it would be a very small deduction.

"It repulses me to see people cheering on making the elderly poorer and more vulnerable again."
Where has anyone done this on this thread? The overwhelming consensus is that giving WFA to 8m pensioners who don't need it is ludicrous and that it should be targeted to the 3.2m pensioners who do (including identifying ways to achieve this for the 1.7m pensioners who are slightly above the PC eligibility threshold so currently will lose it, but who will seriously struggle without it).

I wish that was true, @AngelicKaty but there have been some real shockers on this thread.

Given that other benefits are means tested I think this should be, also the pensioners impacted generally were able to retire at 60 or 65. I feel sorrier for those have to work until 67.

Edited

God forbid you stop telling people about your experiences. Start a blog.