To not understand the uproar over winter fuel allowance being cut?

[virgocatlover]

It's not being cut. The poorest pensioners on pension credit will still get it. It's only being changed so it's no longer a universal payment anymore.

The energy price cap was £1834 October 2023. This October it's £1717. So it's £117 cheaper than it was last winter for average use.

In April 2024 the state pension rose by 8.5% - a rise of around £900 for those on full state pension. It's expected to rise another £400 next April.

Many energy companies still have schemes for those in genuine need. Plus the warm home discount exists for those on a low income.

I understand pensions who receive just state pension and no other income may be annoyed but there has to be a cut somewhere. But pensioners are unlikely to have the expense of rent/ mortgages in retirement which is the biggest expense to those of working age.

However most of the moans I've heard and seen seem to be from the well off pensioners who are cross about losing something. I know a woman who rents out three houses and spends the winter in the Caribbean who is spitting feathers about losing the payment. Another who spent the money on their Christmas booze.

There is so much uproar about this which didn't happen when there were so many other cuts affecting young people/workers/families. All other benefits are means tested, so should WFA.

People still see pensioners as those who fought in the war and counting pennies at the till to pay for their bread and milk. But that's just not the case these days.

I have a neighbour with two middle-aged sons. Each son is "unemployed" and each has a flat for which they pay no rent or council tax. One son hasn't officially worked for 30 yrs; the other has never officially worked. He's been in and out of prison. (Their late father worked all his days. Their mother lives on her pension.)

Both men work on the side. One is the father of two children. They cannot work (officially) because of mental health issues: one is an alcoholic; the other is a drug addict. I've no doubt that there are some mental health issues there, but...

They have been reported, but nothing has been done. There have been issues with one of them coming round to his mother's house looking for money and literally kicking in her door.

The reason those savings are accumulated and held onto relate to the need to possibly pay for care in old age or moving to expensive assisted living in old age. It doesn’t last long once those costs start

The poster was merely giving an example of how it is quite possible to work the system.

pemsioners are more likely to be at home most of the day and need heating more than those who are out working , and older frailer people feel the cold more , so YABVU

@kangarude Actually 79% of people over 65 live in a house they own (74% of those own their house outright). So yes, renters of that age are very much in the minority.

Anyone can say anything on the internet to prove a point.

You’re having a laugh! Peddling untruths? Misleading soundbites? Those are Labour’s stock in trade.

They publicly admonished the Tories at the end of last year for allegedly considering cutting WFA. And the first thing they did was introduce the cut!

Political debate will always be rough and tumble. But Labour’s and its supporters’ claim to the moral high ground is nauseating.

When I was still working and still physically well ,I had hoped for a peaceful retirement. Perhaps have a dog or cat or even a holiday ( only had one in my life 20 years ago) . I have just the state pension and about £2 a week from a small annuity. I rent privately never having been in a position to buy.
I became disabled so I retired as I was past retiring age anyway. Just as cost of living crisis hit.
I'm quite good at managing. I thought I would be fine. In fact some people who do not know ,love to give their opinions. I've been told I don't pay dental charges ,I do, just like anyone else. And a gum infection has meant lots of costs recently. That I get a free TV licence ,I don't. I'm single so the heating of my home costs as much as 2 adults.
I imagined myself making cheap healthy meals. What I didnt imagine was dividing a meal into 2 so it would do 2 days. That I wouldn't put my heating on last winter as I couldn't afford it. I have always been keen on charity shops. What I didn't envisage was not being able to stand long enough or use my hands to look at rails of clothes. That it would be hard to see the prices. So I tend not to bother. I hope the few things I have will last. Shoes are a problem . My feet are painful . But what do you do? The lengths I go to to save! All the tips you can think of. I have not been out to any social event for a year. I tried Netflix but had to cancel. Kindle unlimited , but have just cancelled that. It's only September but I'm feeling cold . I hand wash small items to save using the machine and hang them over the bath but will have to stop doing that as my hands are stiff.
However, I still manage to volunteer. Just.
The WFA was nice to have . I think a lot of people are going to miss it. But I can understand the reasons. I am honestly grateful for what I do have but please don't think that pensioners are all going on cruises , live rent free and have massive savings. Some of the comments are very upsetting.

Yep Social housing rents are going to rise to pay for "affordable" housing to be built. 23% of social housing tenants are pensioners.

We won't get it due to private pensions but last year before my pension we had to live on the single state pension plus a tiny private pension as I'm under pensionable age he couldn't claim pension credit for me and I couldn't get UC because his pensions were more than my benefit rate.

They need a way of ensuring that you're not out of pocket by more than £300 than the pension credit rate.

Look into the ECO4 and ECO4Flex grants. These provide installation of insulation and central heating, all fully funded. Eligibility criteria are benefits + income + savings (I think) for the first and income (under £31K) for the second. The house must have a low EPC (energy performance certificate) of D-G and there are a few other things but they should be listed on your local council website. The grant is a last government initiative which the energy companies pay but the local council administer.

For example:
Thurrock: https://www.thurrock.gov.uk/sites/default/files/assets/documents/eco-flex-soi-202408-v01.pdf
Birmingham: https://www.birmingham.gov.uk/downloads/download/4131/birmingham_city_councils_eco_eligibility_statement_of_intent

It’s because the right wing press want to attack the Labour government. They cannot attack them for heavy sentences for rioters because the public are in agreement. Also I am in my late 60s as are most of my friends & no one I know is bothered about the winter payment being removed. It’s whipped up by the press.

Virgocatlover: I understand pensions who receive just state pension and no other income may be annoyed but there has to be a cut somewhere.
......

I presume you mean 'pensioners'. Nobody lives on state pension alone, which is £948.04 pcm, they would receive pension credit and some other enhancement to bring their income up to a certain level.

I'm not bothered about not receiving the winter fuel allowance. It is still paid to those in receipt of pension credit; however there are some only just over the threshold for receiving that, even by as little as £5 a month, who depended on the fuel allowance and will really feel the pinch. I feel very sorry for those.

Whilst I agree cuts have to be made somewhere, I don't think it was a good move for the government to remove the winter fuel allowance when they'd only been in power for five minutes; it has hardly enhanced their popularity. Though it doesn't affect me personally I have written to the Chancellor and signed the Age UK petition about it because it's obvious that some people who won't get it really do need it; if those who don't receive the allowance are prepared to campaign against the cut, it will add more weight. However I am not a hard liner on this issue. Facebook is full of those and what they say about Keir Starmer is not fit to be repeated! I just hope they are not truly representative of elderly British.

Not all pensioners are mortgage free btw.

What really needs to be tackled, and it obviously won't happen overnight, is the exorbitant cost of fuel and high mortgage rates, both of which went up dramatically last October causing hardship for many younger people (some of whom I know). Plus of course the amount of deposit needed to get a mortgage in the first place. I do hope the government addresses all three of those important issues before too long.

I’m not sure where owning your own home and not having a mortgage comes into the equation for WTA.
My father worked all his life to achieve that and scrimped and saved.
My mum is now on her own, just above the cut off for WFA and she is going to worry about heating her home this winter. Matters not a jot that she has her own home, she’s bloody earned it.
Tax the wealthy sectors of society not the poorest.

I completely agree OP

And by Labour themselves:

https://x.com/darrenpjones/status/1726503349036748968

This is the same man in the same job he was doing as a shadow, responsible for making the fuel payment cut happen!

This government is even more comical than the last one. Though I think Starmer’s government is unique in the extent of its hypocrisy.

I don’t think it’s unfair over a certain income However I think if an elderly person has an illness they should still get heating allowance no matter what their income is.

I dare say. I've given a similar example. Believe it or not as you wish.

Statically most pensioners ARE home owners. They’re also significantly the wealthiest segment of society. Whilst there are poor pensioners as a whole the those age 65+ are wealthier than younger generations. It is totally inappropriate that poorer working people subsidise wealthy older people.

So you're saying he's been defrauding the DWP for a year and you haven't made an anonymous call to them? Why not?

Late 60s is one thing. Wait til people are ten years older and start needing to pay for care at home. You might be grateful for heating allowance then.

It's why people ask for facts, things like statistics. I hate to break it to you, but people aren't always truthful and make things up to prove what they're saying.

this

The problem is that if people are successfully working the system, their wrongdoing will never show up in the statistics.

Therefore either argument is difficult to prove.