To not understand the uproar over winter fuel allowance being cut?

[virgocatlover]

It's not being cut. The poorest pensioners on pension credit will still get it. It's only being changed so it's no longer a universal payment anymore.

The energy price cap was £1834 October 2023. This October it's £1717. So it's £117 cheaper than it was last winter for average use.

In April 2024 the state pension rose by 8.5% - a rise of around £900 for those on full state pension. It's expected to rise another £400 next April.

Many energy companies still have schemes for those in genuine need. Plus the warm home discount exists for those on a low income.

I understand pensions who receive just state pension and no other income may be annoyed but there has to be a cut somewhere. But pensioners are unlikely to have the expense of rent/ mortgages in retirement which is the biggest expense to those of working age.

However most of the moans I've heard and seen seem to be from the well off pensioners who are cross about losing something. I know a woman who rents out three houses and spends the winter in the Caribbean who is spitting feathers about losing the payment. Another who spent the money on their Christmas booze.

There is so much uproar about this which didn't happen when there were so many other cuts affecting young people/workers/families. All other benefits are means tested, so should WFA.

People still see pensioners as those who fought in the war and counting pennies at the till to pay for their bread and milk. But that's just not the case these days.

This! We're in the fortunate position of not needing the heating allowance and always felt it should be given to people who struggle financially. There's probably no ideal way of finding out who really needs it, but it definitely shouldn't go to those who use it to buy their Christmas booze!

I think it was wrong that every pensioner received the winter fuel allowance but a sliding scale as another poster suggested would have been much kinder. TBH I’m not surprised this has happened given the level of dislike and hatred towards older adults which I’ve seen on social media. I’m not state pension age and hope that I can carry on working well beyond the age I can claim a pension. I actually hope I die long before I reach old age because I certainly don’t want to be a burden. Despite being fitter than many people half my age being addressed as sweetheart, my lovely, young lady etc by simpering shop assistants is already bad enough.

@MairifaeInsch making the WFA available only to those who apply for it would penalise those who are not aware/don't know how to do it, usually the oldest people.

I am still waiting for you to come back to my question from earlier OP. Do you think a homeowner living on £221 a week would not benefit from the WFA as a single person with council tax and utility bills to pay and the cost of maintaining their home so it isn’t cold and damp?

No, data based on facts is evidence. Making assumptions about people you don't know on benefits is not evidence. Benefits are very difficult to get and you need medical proof to show you can't work because of a disability. You need to fairly regularly show the proof to keep receiving benefits.

I understand that you think thousands of pounds a month are going to people who can work but tell lies, but assumptions aren't facts.

@AuntieJoyce there has to be a cut off somewhere. Yes it could be argued as unfair for a person living alone in that situation, but is a universal payment for everyone in the answer?

and Mercurial123
Indeed. Your parents are some of the 8m pensioners, out of 11.2m who received the WFA, who didn't need it.
I think we can all agree, it's right that it's being means-tested, but there needs to be an additional measure which brings in the 1.5m pensioners just above the Pension Credit eligibility threshold who are on low enough incomes to need the WFA, but who now won't get it.

I think we can all agree, it's right that it's being means-tested, but there needs to be an additional measure which brings in the 1.5m pensioners just above the Pension Credit eligibility threshold who are on low enough incomes to need the WFA, but who now won't get it.

Spot on.

It's her own home but she won't move. It's unmorgagable. She's got no working toilet, bathes in a bucket. There's so much. I spoke to social services who say they can't do anything because she's got capacity. She is so ashamed of the state of the house she refuses to let anyone in. She can't get any grants to get her some heating installed because she's not on pension credit.

There's so much more but I don't want to take over the thread so I'll just say it's dire. Either she'll freeze to death or the roof will cave in and kill her and I've tried everywhere to get help but been turned down by everyone - council, social services, even age UK just sent me back to places that had already said they can't help and now she refuses to cooperate any more and basically is just waiting to die.

I worked for a charity in the 1980s which aimed to prevent elderly people from literally freezing to death in winter. It was ghastly. It repulses me to see people cheering on making the elderly poorer and more vulnerable again. Means test, yes, but absolutely not at the 'scraping by' level this government is planning. I'm genuinely astonished to see a Labour government do this.

virgocatlover Alan Sugar is apparently eligible for a Bus pass! He has obv never claimed it.I expect these will be dropped as well eventually.Many pensioners are not wealthy though and I think it is wrong to snatch it away with no warning

Except I do know my uncle and I'm not making assumptions, he flat out told us. And I do know my neighbours son, as he lives there and again, he's told us he's on benefits and laughed about the fact he's getting money for nothing when he could work if he could be bothered.

Maybe this isn't anecdotal evidence then. Eyewitness testimony maybe? But it's not assumptions when you actually know it's happening.

I would support something around the level of the national minimum wage as a cut off.

My DM has just shown me a letter today that said the cap is going up 🤷🏼‍♀️

Mixed age couples are no longer entitled to Pension Credit. I guess pensioners dont feel the cold when they have a magical talisman younger partner

why would you think pensioners don't pay rent

Because far, far fewer pensioners pay rent than younger people. The gap is even bigger when you compare how many pensioners pay private/market rents (hint - not many).

Yet we don't offer any help to young families on low incomes.

It was always a grey pound vote winner rather than an effective targeted relief.

You also lose entitlement if you have savings above a certain amount. (I couldn't tell you what the current amount is.)

Many older folk have set aside money to pay for their funeral after they're gone. They're possibly better advised to pay for that in advance.

I personally disagree with giving money to 8m pensioners who don't need it, but I'm more than happy to give it to the 3.2m who do (and that figure includes pensioners who are on low incomes, but not quite low enough to claim Pension Credit - it's outrageous it's being taken from them).

Yes, this is what many people don't seem to understand.

As a country we're £2,720.8 billion in debt as of last year and growing.

'I've paid in all my life' - is what I hear from my parents. Yes they have, but it turns out it wasn't anywhere near enough, and their generation and the one before it put all of the spending on the UK's credit card.

It's all shit, but some hard choices need to be made somewhere - I'm not saying it should be this, but if not, does anyone have any plan at all how to get back on track or shall we look to a future where we spend all taxes on interest payments?

The price cap is going up when compared to the July cap, but it's cheaper than the October 2023 cap.

That comment might be funny if it weren't so tone deaf, ignorant and ageist.

Labour have done something cruel and repellent in taking away winter fuel allowance. There was no justification whatsoever to do this but Rachel Reeves is on record 10 years ago stating she intended to remove it. I genuinely cannot believe the number of people trying to argue that it's fine, most of whom would be up in arms if the Tories did the same. It isn't fine but morality goes straight out the window when it's 'our team' committing something awful. Let's hope for a mild winter eh?

I’m with you OP. My DM bought a bike with her allowance and another pensioner I know went on holiday to sunny climes with hers. And crowed about it all over social media. I think we tend to forget that today’s pensioners are boomers and many have final salary pensions or at least very generous ones. They are the Beatles generation not Vera Lyn.

However , I’m not happy as a Labour voter that this was announced as it was. It’s given the right wing press an absolute gift to distort and peddle untruths and sound bite headlines,

I think the threshold will be raised and there will be an increase in basic pension to take the sting out of the cut in the budget.

Actually, Pension Credit comes in two parts: Guarantee Credit (which refers to the figures I previously quoted) and Savings Credit, so pensioners aren't discouraged from saving (up to £10k) and may be eligible for one or both parts.
Savings Credit is extra money if you've got some savings or if your income is higher than the basic State Pension (current maximum is £169.50pw). It's available to people who reached State Pension age before 6 April 2016 and they could get up to:

• £17.01 extra per week if they're single
• £19.04 extra per week if they're in a couple.