To not understand the uproar over winter fuel allowance being cut?

[virgocatlover]

It's not being cut. The poorest pensioners on pension credit will still get it. It's only being changed so it's no longer a universal payment anymore.

The energy price cap was £1834 October 2023. This October it's £1717. So it's £117 cheaper than it was last winter for average use.

In April 2024 the state pension rose by 8.5% - a rise of around £900 for those on full state pension. It's expected to rise another £400 next April.

Many energy companies still have schemes for those in genuine need. Plus the warm home discount exists for those on a low income.

I understand pensions who receive just state pension and no other income may be annoyed but there has to be a cut somewhere. But pensioners are unlikely to have the expense of rent/ mortgages in retirement which is the biggest expense to those of working age.

However most of the moans I've heard and seen seem to be from the well off pensioners who are cross about losing something. I know a woman who rents out three houses and spends the winter in the Caribbean who is spitting feathers about losing the payment. Another who spent the money on their Christmas booze.

There is so much uproar about this which didn't happen when there were so many other cuts affecting young people/workers/families. All other benefits are means tested, so should WFA.

People still see pensioners as those who fought in the war and counting pennies at the till to pay for their bread and milk. But that's just not the case these days.

It seems I was wrong about how many pensioners are homeowners, so I apologise OP.
That doesn’t alter the fact that there are still many who are living in poverty.
My DH started receiving his state pension last year and received the WFA payment. We don’t need it, so I agree it did need amending but I don’t think it was very well thought out. There needs to be a better way of allocating to those in need

I don’t think it should be universal, but to not be eligible you need an income of over about £850 a month which is extremely low.

I'm not aspiring to it. I used it as an example of how it could work if it came to it. Personally I want to see the NHS fixed. But you asked a question and I pointed out that the PP had already answered it in her original post and expanded on it.

My last three have provided private healthcare. A basic level and you can add people on for extra, and increase your cover if you need to. As a benefit in kind it costs me around £4 a month in tax, which is much less that NI. DH is in a very different industry and his last four have provided it. My sister works in retail and her employer has started provided a low level of it. My mother worked in a different industry again and had it.

I don't know of any of my friends who don't have it provided through work, now. It didn't used to be that way but it is becoming more and more common.

100%

There's been a loss of the collective 'we' for 'me' throughout society. And it shows in so many ways.

There's been a loss of the collective 'we' for 'me' throughout society. And it shows in so many ways.

this

It proves that you can cheat the benefits system which many people say you can't.

Pretty sure that he is not the only neighbour doing this either

The uproar is because people have had no time to plan for this shortfall in their budget. With notice, they could have saved towards it.

I am a WASPI woman who also suffered from no notice from the DWP. They failed to inform many thousands of women that they would not get their pension until they were 66. If I'd known, I would have made very different decisions in my late fifties.

Indeed, but again it's a little more complex than that. For example, each parent can be eligible if they earn £100k or less. This means if both partners earn £100k they can qualify, but if one earns £30,000 and the other £100,001, they won't.

That's a very idealistic way of looking at it.

It's actually very easy to be signed off sick for stress, anxiety and depression. There's a checklist GPs ask you and it's fairly simple to work out what answers you need to give. And the referral waitlists on the NHS for any support for mental health are so long, that it could be possible to be repeatedly signed off for months before you had to see someone face to face qualified to say whether you were faking or not. By which point you might actually have dug yourself into a hole of depression.

I agree. My mum thought it was ridiculous that she got it.
That and free bus travel.
Again, get that the cut off is potentially too low but it has to be somewhere.

It's controversial but we pay out far too much in this country.

Many pensioners do pay rent and if they don't qualify for pension credit won't get housing benefit either. Cut-off for pension credit is £221 per week below even minimum wage.

How does it matter how low universal credit is if you are working Monday to Friday cash in hand? No income tax and no national insurance to pay.

The neighbour is raking it in and it makes me sick. He was on Job Seekers but, quite rightly, they were pushing him to find a job so he contacted the GP with the sob story of not being able to leave his house. Convenient for him that it is now almost impossible to actually see a Dr and appointments are by phone so he didn't have to leave his house for his sick note.

I agree that it's too much fuss. Those who need it will still get it (and there are lots of other allowances for the elderly such as attendance allowance, which is £100ish a week and so easily covers things like extra heating or taxi fares.

I'd like to see a government give a little more priority to the young. They were done over by Brexit and covid so perhaps we can run the country better so that they have a better time of it in future rather than subsidising heating bills for people who can afford to pay their own.

They are very much in the minority and that doesn't justify a universal payment. There are calls for it to be reinstated for ALL pensioners

All benefits should be means tested. No one should just be given handouts. I support child benefit being means tested although not the way it is, as a household earning more across 2 people will get it than one person earning less and being the only income. My parents absolutely do not need the warm home allowance.

For council tax, getting rid of the single person discount makes no sense. They already pay 75% of what a multi adult household would. A per person amount would be fairer, so houses with more adults pay more.

@mydogisthebest well he is committing benefit fraud in that case

If they only have £221 a week how do they pay rent? They must get some other sort of benefit.

Also - prescriptions should be free from 67, not 60. Most people are still working at 60. Same for bus passes.

You really don’t see why someone living on £880 pcm might find it hard to face a winter bill of £200+ to heat their home to a safe / healthy level for an older person?

This. How can anyone think that someone living on £880 or even £1,000 per month is wealthy?

The government has taken the easiest route.

They could have set the threshold at the equivalent of minimum wage i.e. £ 20800 per year.

For council tax, getting rid of the single person discount makes no sense. They already pay 75% of what a multi adult household would. A per person amount would be fairer, so houses with more adults pay more

I do agree with this but that would be straying uncomfortably towards the "community charge" - ie "poll tax".

There is no differential between the colder parts of the UK and the warmer. Just look at the weather maps and see the temperature difference between Cornwall and NE Scotland, much colder longer winters. If you are just over the cut off point it is harder for northern pensioners without the WFA.
and if you live in a rural location, like we do, 1.5 miles from a bus stop with only one bus a day, a car is a necessity.

there have been suggestions to make pensions equate to the national living wage, which would seem sensible. We have the meanest pension in europe. How paying pensioners a decent pension so they wouldn't need to claim extra benefits.
and pensioners on the lower rate didn't get all those rises you keep talking about.

Yes we do but why is free childcare handed out to people on high salaries?

Its not really free though. I think childcare costs should be subsidised because it’s progressive but lots don’t agree.

This means if both partners earn £100k they can qualify, but if one earns £30,000 and the other £100,001, they won't.

Someone earning 1p over a 100k will ask for their salary to stay the same or increase pension contributions so they still qualify for some free hours.

It again peinalises those just above the povity line. I do understand that there needs to be a cut off somewhere and those just above it will be hit the hardest.

Unfortunately however, this is going to impact my Grandmother who has a bone disorder. She suffers majorly in the colder weather and I fear that she won’t have her heating on as much this year as she likes to keep costs to a minimum. She’s no longer entitled to pension credit as she receives the very small pension of my dearly missed Grandfather. I fear that she’ll be bed-bound this winter, largely to do with this cut.

Also - prescriptions should be free from 67, not 60. Most people are still working at 60. Same for bus passes.

they won’t be free from 60 for much longer!

I think it is the unfairness, someone who is pennies over the pension credit amount gets nothing so getting a higher pension makes them worse off.

Yes, I said he was. I have reported him, more than once, to HMRC and DWP and yet nothing happens.

How many other people across the country are doing the same?