To not understand the uproar over winter fuel allowance being cut?

[virgocatlover]

It's not being cut. The poorest pensioners on pension credit will still get it. It's only being changed so it's no longer a universal payment anymore.

The energy price cap was £1834 October 2023. This October it's £1717. So it's £117 cheaper than it was last winter for average use.

In April 2024 the state pension rose by 8.5% - a rise of around £900 for those on full state pension. It's expected to rise another £400 next April.

Many energy companies still have schemes for those in genuine need. Plus the warm home discount exists for those on a low income.

I understand pensions who receive just state pension and no other income may be annoyed but there has to be a cut somewhere. But pensioners are unlikely to have the expense of rent/ mortgages in retirement which is the biggest expense to those of working age.

However most of the moans I've heard and seen seem to be from the well off pensioners who are cross about losing something. I know a woman who rents out three houses and spends the winter in the Caribbean who is spitting feathers about losing the payment. Another who spent the money on their Christmas booze.

There is so much uproar about this which didn't happen when there were so many other cuts affecting young people/workers/families. All other benefits are means tested, so should WFA.

People still see pensioners as those who fought in the war and counting pennies at the till to pay for their bread and milk. But that's just not the case these days.

Many people like myself who already have insurance would carry on. Most people would be covered by their employers and those over 65 or the long term disabled would be covered by an insurance premium tax we all pay. It really isn’t very difficult.

I doubt many pensioners have those things.

It actually isn't because the person the carer is caring for will be in receipt of UC (with the disability component) or nsESA and they are eligible for the WFA.

Forget age, how can anyone think that the state pension, plus what little pension you've managed to acquire elsewhere - please do not think that everyone has a lovely final salary pension, or has been able to acquire sufficient pension, as that's really not the case for most, as lots of employers did not have pensions schemes, went pop and took the pensions with them and it is only relatively recently that things have changed in this regards to ensuring contributions, although I doubt that most will be sufficient) - can manage on far, far less than the minimum wage, which is currently £23,700 for a 40 hour week. Social housing rents went up by 7% last year and Labour look likely to allow that to keep on happening to pay for their plans to build more appallingly constructed boxes and keep developers very happy profit wise, forget inflation figures as they do not push prices down, although they should, and reductions promised in utilities are making little or no difference. Living costs are still significantly higher as a proportion of earnings / benefits than ever before, but supposedly you are meant to cope with a state pension at full payout (for which you've had to pay in for many years) of £12k plus. The issue is that the cost of living is off the scale for most. Yes, there are always those for whom life is easy and should not our tax laws deal with this? Labour are hitting soft targets and I'd like to see a change in a great many tax laws, in work / employment programmes, in employers making billions and running food banks for their staff.... The exceptions make the news, unfortunately too many, of all ages, are falling through the gaps of being able to cope with the cost of living. There are too many assumptions about the worth of people too, just because a home you live in is worth x, because of market forces. doesn't mean that people have the disposable income to pay increasing costs and taxes. We seem to be failing the majority to help the minority and I fear for what is to come next.

@AngelicKaty not all caters will live with the person they care for and whilst they may not be at home as much they will have a very reduced income to pay for gas and electric when they are home.

‘Privatisation’ of the NHS means using private contractors to supply NHS services. Whether you think that’s a good or bad thing it doesn’t mean that NHS care is not free at the point of use.

I do wish Labour supporters would stop this ‘privatisation of the NHS is the end of state-run and supported healthcare’. It’s a massive falsehood.

I advise that you compare utility providers and see if you can get cheaper deals. Some utility providers have grants available, so it may be worth checking. Turn2us will be able to tell you if you're eligible to get any grants or other help.

A heated throw costs a few pence to run a day but helps with the cold. Contact Age UK for further support.

My dad usually gives his to charity, as he feels he doesn't need it, so they will miss out!!

What a ludicrous sweeping generalisation. There is a minority of pensioners who have never been homeowners - they've been in low-paid, low-skilled employment their whole lives and do not have private pensions (and some are having to work well into old age to keep their heads above water).

My mum said loads of her friends do this too - shame for the charities but obvs her friends don't need it!

Pensioners have been good plated with protections for years. Some need help and some don't.

It's correct that the poorest can access a range of benefits including rent paid, pension credit and wfa.

Some really don't need help and are moaning now a freebie is bring removed.

It really cannot be right that some of the richest in society ate given free money. Give it to people that need it.

Cats protection etc shouldn't be funded by pensioners who don't need winter f allowance

Same here
Parents soon going on their maybe 10th cruise, dad retired at 60 mum 58, home owners with lots of investments and private pensions but my dad actually told me recently with all seriousness that it'll be their last cruise (this one is £5k) due to loss of the winter payment.

That entirely depends on what they’re spending their money on and their own personal level of inflation

You didn’t actually read what I wrote did you. I told you how pensioners would be supported

It’s obviously absurd that well off pensioners should receive several hundred pounds bonus when younger people with families are struggling to feed their families.A means tested benefit is better.
I also think pensioners should pay National Insurance, people are living longer and it could pay for Socisl Cate and free up NHS beds,

@iamtheblcksheep ok so how would the poorest pensions afford this premium tax? Surely that would be more than the WFA they've lost?

And it's not common for employers to offer private healthcare, many only offer the statutory minimum 'benefits'. How would businesses be able to afford that.

On the old state pension you didn’t even need to save into a private pension to disqualify yourself. You just needed to pay full NICs and not be a member of a pension scheme whilst you were working

No they were paying for the huge debt that WW2 left us in. Had they not been paying 35% base rate tax the country would have gone under decades ago and the fuel payments argument would never have arisen.

But my dad lives on £235 per week, has no savings and has never been on a cruise. When his boiler needed replacing, I had to pay for it. Why do you think he should lose the WFA?

Those who just miss pension credit are not rich. Also cutting that then giving loads of money to train drivers whose pay is way above compatible jobs already showed there is money, but pensioners as a group don’t contribute collectively to the Labour Party. Should have just made it taxable.

Read what she said. She said we'd all pay it. As in, it would come from the income tax of the workers, much like the pension does.

I would imagine this could work similar to national insurance now, although it wouldn't need to be as high.

Employers could be made to provide healthcare. A bit like America. Levels would vary etc but it would entice more people into work. And many employers actually do provide it these days anyway.

Indeed. And just wait until we get a colder than average winter and the death rate goes up

@IpsyUpsyDaisyDoos I've never worked for an employer who provides this, and the people I know who have this through their employer work for insurance companies and pay towards it from their wages. It's not the norm.

And it comes to something when people are using America's health system as something to aspire to.

If they work they pay NI on any earnings, and also tax. If their only income is state pension they are under the threshold for both Tax and NI.
The same should apply to any benefits that take people over the threshold.

People over state pension age don't pay NI