Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Early prison release for DV perpetrators *trigger warning DV*

172 replies

Usercyzabc · 07/09/2024 23:00

I’m sure this has been discussed at length but what am I missing with not understanding Starmers thinking in releasing violence men under his SDS40 scheme?

Not sure what my AIBU is, but happy for suggestions.

I won’t link, but I read in the Daily Fail today, that next week this is to go ahead.

I don’t understand.

OP posts:
MissUnlocked · 08/09/2024 01:14

Hmm that's not 'my logic' it was a question

You don't seem very capable of thinking things through though. Just shouting about it all

GoldOnyx · 08/09/2024 01:14

Usercyzabc · 08/09/2024 01:13

Thank you @User6874356 i agree, the tone is a shaming tactic. My post are unclear, click baity etc. I don’t really care, its just a deflection from the real issue, what I do care about is this posters enormous lack of understanding around DV, and that there is far more sympathy for the homeless violent men (they put themselves in this situation) than the women they most likely have driven to a DV shelter with their young children . This posters total lack of understanding is part of the problem obviously, which in itself needs addressing as a wider issue.

You can come at me all you like @GoldOnyx but it’s clear you are an advocate for this programme bar the slightly bizarre post about emailing an MP who I am fairly certain is more than aware of what’s happening.

What makes you think I don’t understand the impact of domestic violence?

GoldOnyx · 08/09/2024 01:15

@Usercyzabc and @User6874356 I’m starting to think you’re the same person 😂😂😂 you’ve got a very similar writing style and you keep mistakenly tagging each other.

Usercyzabc · 08/09/2024 01:16

GoldOnyx · 08/09/2024 01:14

What makes you think I don’t understand the impact of domestic violence?

Explain your understanding beyond just your sympathy for the perpetrators.

OP posts:
MissUnlocked · 08/09/2024 01:16

@GoldOnyx you haven't tried to shut down debate at all

You've tried to explain but to no avail, hat off to you but it's twee mumsnet where nobody listens to anything but the Daily Mail

GoldOnyx · 08/09/2024 01:17

Usercyzabc · 08/09/2024 01:16

Explain your understanding beyond just your sympathy for the perpetrators.

Wow. Where have I shown sympathy for the perpetrators?

Usercyzabc · 08/09/2024 01:17

GoldOnyx · 08/09/2024 01:15

@Usercyzabc and @User6874356 I’m starting to think you’re the same person 😂😂😂 you’ve got a very similar writing style and you keep mistakenly tagging each other.

What is wrong with you that you are trivialising something that has far reaching consequences, there a prime example of your gross lack of understanding. Appalling really.

OP posts:
MissUnlocked · 08/09/2024 01:18

@GoldOnyx I thought that too....sockpuppetting

Usercyzabc · 08/09/2024 01:18

GoldOnyx · 08/09/2024 01:17

Wow. Where have I shown sympathy for the perpetrators?

So you wont answer the question just deflect. Sounds about right.

OP posts:
MissUnlocked · 08/09/2024 01:19

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Efacsen · 08/09/2024 01:20

MissUnlocked · 08/09/2024 00:49

Also if they are released at 40% early or at 100% completion does anyone actually believe they will be a different person?

Don't think that anyone serves 100% of their sentence - it's usually 50%

So the reduction under this scheme is from 50% to 40%

And the main cause of the current over-crowding is longer sentences over the last 30 years

IDK Arguably longer sentences are not as effective as hoped in reducing crime??

,

MissUnlocked · 08/09/2024 01:22

@Efacsen yep! But that's why I was asking for an answer... which the two ( sock puppet) posters can't answer....

Usercyzabc · 08/09/2024 01:25

MissUnlocked · 08/09/2024 01:22

@Efacsen yep! But that's why I was asking for an answer... which the two ( sock puppet) posters can't answer....

Because you’re not to be taken seriously I’m afraid.

OP posts:
GoldOnyx · 08/09/2024 01:29

I’ll give you an answer. I have shown no sympathy for the perpetrators whatsoever.

Please see an extract from my posts below, which I think is relevant to your question. None of them show any sympathy for the perpetrators.

I find it so upsetting and worrying that former prisoners will be homeless. This not only makes them vulnerable but also makes everyone else around them vulnerable and also increases the chances they’ll get sent back to prison. It achieves nothing other than to keep the horrible cycle going.

I then clarified my above post with this:

I’m not talking in my post about ex-prisoners who were sentenced to prison for domestic abuse though. Sorry - I realise I didn’t make it clear. I’m talking about people who went to prison for things like shoplifting or drug dealing, which whilst they are serious crimes, are not in my opinion as serious as domestic abuse. Unfortunately there’s a very high risk that former prisoners become homeless once they leave prison. When they are released from prison, they just leave - that’s it. They have nowhere to go. It is very sad.

I then said this:

Presumably there are worse offenders that the government wants to keep in prison, so this is the plan they’ve come up with. I agree they should be kept in prison. It’s very very worrying.

And then I said this:

The government obviously could not release prisoners serving whole life sentences or murder sentences, so they had to release other categories of prisoners. That will include some prisoners who are serving sentences for acts of domestic abuse. Which is of course unacceptable. So we need to protest against that, which is our democratic right, and bloody well hope the government hears us.

GoldOnyx · 08/09/2024 01:31

Usercyzabc · 08/09/2024 01:18

So you wont answer the question just deflect. Sounds about right.

I’ve answered your question now, should you wish to respond.

MissUnlocked · 08/09/2024 01:33

@Usercyzabc

You mean you have no answer

Because you are reacting to daily Mail rubbish ....

GoldOnyx · 08/09/2024 01:33

EDIT: My response below to 01:17 post from @Usercyzabc.

I’m not trivialising this.

From my very first post on this thread, I think I show a good understanding of the scheme and the reason why it has been chosen over other options.

I’ve recapped my first post on the thread below:

If you’ve read any articles about this scheme, it will have been made clear that the government has decided to go ahead with it because the prisons have been in a state of crisis for months as they are so low on space. That is clearly a very unsustainable situation and this has been judged to be the most suitable short term solution before a better long term can be found. This solution is far from being perfect, and as part of it, many violent prisoners will be released, including domestic abusers.

Usercyzabc · 08/09/2024 01:37

GoldOnyx · 08/09/2024 01:31

I’ve answered your question now, should you wish to respond.

You’ve not, I specifically asked about your understanding of the impact of DV on the victims/ survivors, all you talk about is the perpetrators. Thats ok, as I said count yourself lucky.

OP posts:
Usercyzabc · 08/09/2024 01:38

GoldOnyx · 08/09/2024 01:33

EDIT: My response below to 01:17 post from @Usercyzabc.

I’m not trivialising this.

From my very first post on this thread, I think I show a good understanding of the scheme and the reason why it has been chosen over other options.

I’ve recapped my first post on the thread below:

If you’ve read any articles about this scheme, it will have been made clear that the government has decided to go ahead with it because the prisons have been in a state of crisis for months as they are so low on space. That is clearly a very unsustainable situation and this has been judged to be the most suitable short term solution before a better long term can be found. This solution is far from being perfect, and as part of it, many violent prisoners will be released, including domestic abusers.

Edited

You are but it happens, people don’t take this matter seriously.

OP posts:
GoldOnyx · 08/09/2024 01:40

Usercyzabc · 08/09/2024 01:37

You’ve not, I specifically asked about your understanding of the impact of DV on the victims/ survivors, all you talk about is the perpetrators. Thats ok, as I said count yourself lucky.

You didn’t ask that at all.

You asked this: Explain your understanding beyond just your sympathy for the perpetrators.

And I answered.

GoldOnyx · 08/09/2024 01:40

Usercyzabc · 08/09/2024 01:38

You are but it happens, people don’t take this matter seriously.

I don’t understand what ‘You are but it happens’ means. What does it mean?

MissUnlocked · 08/09/2024 01:42

I left my violent ex. Took dc to a hostel for a year, best thing I ever did as well!

GoldOnyx · 08/09/2024 01:47

Usercyzabc · 08/09/2024 01:37

You’ve not, I specifically asked about your understanding of the impact of DV on the victims/ survivors, all you talk about is the perpetrators. Thats ok, as I said count yourself lucky.

I will answer your latest question.

The impact of DV on survivors (as this is the most suitable word to use) is extremely complex. Survivors will have severe mental and physical scars after being domestically abused. The nature of this depends on each case, as every case is of course different and should be handled as such. I think it’s so important to be aware that the impact of DV for survivors is severe, but it will vary from person to person.

GoldOnyx · 08/09/2024 01:48

MissUnlocked · 08/09/2024 01:42

I left my violent ex. Took dc to a hostel for a year, best thing I ever did as well!

Well done Miss. You did brilliantly.

SerenityNowInsanityLater · 08/09/2024 01:50

Also if they are released at 40% early or at 100% completion does anyone actually believe they will be a different person?

It's a legitimate argument: What's the difference whether they get out in 9 months or 19 months? It could be argued that the shorter sentencing won't have that much of an impact because they'll be the same asshole coming out of that prison as they went in, regardless of the time they spent behind bars.

However, what's hard for people who haven't been abused (my ex husband is currently serving a sentence) to understand is that an abuser's time in prison is the victim's justice, and crucially, their time for recovery, rebuilding resilience, making their lives safer. It takes time for a broken soul to mend a broken life. Safety, and future proofing that safety, becomes everything to a recovering victim. And that sentence becomes a victim's vital time frame to work within. You honestly feel pressed for time, this absolute desperation, as the years of that sentence pass, because it takes SO long to get your shit together after you've been abused. You've lost the capacity to make decisions, to trust (yourself, above all). You don't just shake off the abuse and step into a new life with a future ahead. Your past, as an abused woman, isn't yet far enough away. It sits there like a motionless fog over your life for quite a while.

Your abuser may be in prison but you almost end up institutionalised yourself, trapped in the prison of trauma, fuelled by an abuse that's curtailed your growth, your well-being, your sense of freedom, self, joy, and safety for years and years. You have to learn, taking baby steps, to release that abuse to the past.
I feel like I've done time alongside my ex.
I don't think I've recovered at all these past 2 1/2 years.
I've functioned. I've endured. I've moved forward. But I haven't recovered. I am so sad about that, above everything else.
And there is no system in place, there just isn't, that offers the stability and sense of safety victims desperately need once their perpetrator is behind bars. Victim Support is a courtesy call and email. It's useful. It has its place and I am grateful for it. But it's not a lean-to for victims to seek shelter under.

The need to feel some sense of justice is paramount to a victim's recovery. That release date is a crushing blow because it already comes early at present (my ex gets out in 3 weeks. He has served 2 1/2 years. He'll now serve 3 more years out on licence). He's already had a solicitor send across a list of demands to me, including financial ones. He's angry. I put him in prison. He'll never forgive me for that. And he's a vengeful fucker.
The abuse, albeit emotional now, resumes. Even from a distance. And he's not even out of prison yet.

Domestic abuse escalates to femicide too easily. When you confront your abuser and decide to leave your abuser, the danger and risk of death escalates exponentially.

It's very hard, I understand, for several women on this thread to hear someone like me say, "If this early release scheme plays out, Kier Starmer is failing women and children. I am afraid of the consequences of the government's decision, one that I don't think is right."
It's much easier to dehumanise women and children and to intellectualise the debate around releasing dangerous and violent men early than it is to listen to a woman simply say, "I'm afraid and our government is wrong and putting women and children at risk."

And it's really easy to just put the problem of male violence on us women. "Prison's not the be all and end all! Let the women take responsibility! Maybe if you stupid women wouldn't breed with these violent men, the problem would solve itself." Yes, this was pretty much said on this thread. I am paraphrasing but I'm not far off. That mentality is up there with "Maybe if she didn't wear a short skirt she wouldn't have gotten raped."

Well, maybe if more of us started such sentences with 'men should'' instead of 'women should', society could move the needle forward. Because we haven't. We're just stuck. Stop using the word 'women' where the word 'men' needs to be placed.

I am tired. I don't have a solution, of course. But I don't think this scheme is the answer to the prison crisis.
It's just so predictable that cutting corners on the preservation of female safety is the default solution here, as usual. "The women won't mind! They won't even notice it because they embody the short straw."
We've grown so immune to this reality, we don't even notice it happening to us anymore. We'd rather blow smoke up Sir Kier's ass than actually say, "Hang on a minute, our safety is being thrown under the bus here."