Did women used to enjoy being catcalled?

[Gofastboatsmojito]

Hi,

Filtering a recent discussion with my stepmum I just wanted to survey the 55+ year olds of mumsnet to check whether I'm way off.

She is absolutely insistent that in her youth women (most? all?) enjoyed being whistled or shouted appreciatively at when waking past a building site.

She thinks women's perception of this has changed in the last 20 years. All her friends enjoyed it in the 70s and 80s apparently.

For context she has been the subject of male violence including sexual violence and does not equate the two.

I find it hard to believe everyone enjoyed it and assume that women felt a lot less able to say they didn't like it due to fear of being called frigid, uptight etc.

I'm sure the answer might lie somewhere between the two extremes but just wondering what an AIBU poll might say.

V grateful if women of age 55+ only vote

YABU = in my youth the majority of women I knew considered a wolf whistle as a cheeky but welcome compliment

YANBU = I didn't enjoy this even in the 70s

I was watching an old episode of an SAS type programme once and one of the men was talking to a new recruit about his partner and apparently the first thing he thought about her was ' she's nice , I wouldn't mind putting it in her '( don't wish to offend, but this is what he said)
It's how many men think about women and probably a lot worse too :(

No woman in my family
ever did. I remember multiple discussions around this. I also remember my very pretty,
young Dmum telling some
blokes at a garage who catcalled as we walked by EXACTLY what she thought of them and their manners. I still remember the looked of astonishment as she went though them for a short cut asking them who the hell they were to shout out like that at her, and why they thought it was okay to call a woman they don’t know love or darling or tell her to calm down.

I remember getting catcalled lots as a teen (late 90’s/early 00’s). Mum used to be so proud. She would say it was because I was so good looking etc. It wasn’t until I pointed out to her that you could look like a troll, they’d still catcall you, that she realised I had a point. But she and a lot of her generation were all about pleasing men and being attractive for men. I’m glad we have moved on.

I hated it.

They didn’t answer back, either because they were stunned or because I was only about 6 at the time …

Spot the bloke.

I'm 64. This sums it up for me. If I think back I can feel quite traumatised. The insidious day-to-day groping and objectification all the way to rape

I agree. For me, looking back, one of the worst things about it was how we were taught to value it. I desperately wanted to be pretty when I was younger. In my early 20s (bearing in mind I was married, so someone thought something of me) at my place of work the men had a score sheet, ranking the women out of 10. Of course, I was in the 2-3 range with the women over 50. I shouldn't have been bothered about my place in the rankings. I should have been bothered about the existence of the rankings at all from mostly much older men who weren't oil paintings. I cringe about it now.

What I really hated was the surprise from, curiously, women more often, that my husband was nice-looking. I well remember being in an amateur dramatics group, my husband coming to see the show and the female cast commenting on his looks with a 'really, that's your husband?' vibe. I wasn't imagining it either, because the female director, a lovely lady in her seventies, snapped, 'why shouldn't she have a good-looking husband'. Mind you, the same director wouldn't even let me read for the meaty lead role I wanted, shoving me into the 'comedy maid' part, which was pretty much where plain actresses ended up and why my ambitions to do it for a career were shelved as I had enough wherewithal to know I wasn't good enough to overcome being plain. It was (and still is) much harder to make it in the industry if you don't have the looks.

A few years ago, I was reminded of this in the local pub. A male acquaintance remarked that my husband had good bone structure, and said to me, 'you punched above your weight, there'. That was the one and only time I threw my drink over someone, whilst saying my husband wasn't a shallow arsehole.

I hated the whole 'looks' thing. It stunk from every angle, from harassing the pretty women to belittling the plain ones. It still does. And whilst I understand women who say they enjoy cat calls, etc, it's just another perpetuation of the idea that it's OK to place so much value on appearance for women in particular. It isn't. It never was.

I was brought up in an era where carry on films were seen on tv as the norm and it was always ' sexy young female v the older, not so attractive more matronly type of woman who was seen as a ' battle axe'.
I'd like to think times have moved on a lot , but I don't think they have really for lots of men.

I’m 56, and my reaction to catcalling in my youth depended very much on the setting.
If it was a sunny day, I was dressed up, out with friends, happy, laughing - then some whistles from builders was fun, like an acknowledgement that we all looked good.
But if I was on my own, feeling a bit fed up, or just busy, preoccupied - then it was annoying, and I would takes steps (eg cross the road) to avoid it.
I have to say I never found it threatening though. Just rather tiresome.
Also, I would take a thousand whistles over remarks like “cheer up darling, it might never happen”. That pissed me off.

I’m late 50s. I hated it, and I resented it.

It started when I got breasts at 14. I was a child, for god’s sake.

There is no part of my self worth that’s ever been bolstered by anonymous knuckle dragging blokes commenting on my attractiveness or otherwise. I didn’t like the wolf whistles or the catcalls because no thank you, I don’t want blokes expressing their opinion on my fuckability.

Back then if you objected you were a frigid bitch, a misery guts, “would miss it later”, can’t take a joke, didn’t understand “it’s a compliment”.

We were told it should put a spring in our step, make us feel flattered, feel admired, feel approved of.

The misogyny of earlier times - the bar was so ridiculously low that a gang of men commenting loudly about the sexual appeal of a school child was supposed to make her happy, or even grateful.

Fuck that. I’m am so glad my daughter’s generation don’t have that as a constant background to their lives.

To all the older men out there who did it - I see you, I judge you, and I hope you get piles.

As I read it back to myself I realised I should have used a personal pronoun rather than insinuating others had the same experience. Poor habit on my part.

@cortex10 at least now if that happened on the majority of my sites they would be red carded (kicked off site). There are strict rules and the developers pride themselves on being polite neighbours as they know that the first houses sold on a building site fund the next lot.

I'm 69 and it did used to embarrass me - but I found if I looked embarrassed and scuttled past it made them worse, and I was too scared to take offence and tell them off (can just imagine the reponse that would have got), so I just used to style it out and wave at them. So I probably contributed to the problem I know.

Edit - I ought to have added that the situation would change whether I was embarrassed or scared. Guys on a building site during the day = embarrassed, group of guys on a corner or at night = scared and embarrassed.

Have to say though, my mum and I both got whistled at once (she was extremely attractive) and she definitely took it as a compliment and told my Dad about it when we got home.

I never enjoyed it or found it less than insulting/ threatening except on two occasions.
The first more positive experience was when I was a young student visiting Glasgow and passed by a group of workmen. One of the older gentlemen smiled at me and said ‘ hen, you’re a pretty lass, have a great day. Looks like my daughter’. Pleasant non threatening interaction. No nasty responses from his team.
Second unsolicited comment was from two old tramps sitting on a park bench as I passed by with my five year old. Commented that we were a pretty mum and wee girl to see on a summer’s day. Likewise, absolutely fine.
Very different to the antagonistic often seemingly hate filled sexual comments that occasionally came my way from random lowlifes.
Some women, who I think must be mired in internal misogyny, do seem to get a kick out of crass sexual comments as an ego boost. I have never understood why it’s a compliment that some random creep wants to shag you. So far as I can tell these type of men would sleep with anyone ! It’s not a complement.

Typo!! Compliment!

What I find interesting these days is that I can tell the difference between a man who has clearly mistaken me for someone much younger and one who can see I'm older.

The latter group tend to say something along the lines of you're looking very beautiful today. The former will get pushy and act like I'm going to drop my shopping and shag them.

Neither my mum or my Grandma ever enjoyed it.
And my Grandma was incredibly sex positive and liberal to a degree that would be uncommon even today.

Mum was born in 1956 and Grandma was in her mid 30's when mum was born (sorry I don't know her birth year).

Really interesting to see all the responses and thanks to everyone who has offered an honest opinion.

I realised I didn't give my own. I'm mid 40s and have always been very busty so I've had a lot of this.

Occasionally it felt quite benign and something approaching a compliment but my overall memory is that each time i was 'noticed' i felt an overwhelming obligation to stand to attention and acknowledge the man shouting or whistling at me.

It felt near impossible to ignore them, and felt near impossible to respond negatively. I would instantly go bright red and smile then hate myself for the reaction and it would stain the next few minutes or hours for me as I berated myself fot responding in such a dog deaperate for approval way.

I'd describe myself as a fairly average looking woman with a strong sense of self and robust self confidence. I'm very confident professionally, top of the class etc, so i think this had a lot to do with my self loathing for the reaction I couldn't surpress when i got male attention. Im very glad its abating now but i do miss the consideration aspect, now young men practically elbow me out the way to get on a train ahead of me etc

I’m not going to vote because I don’t agree with either option but yes, I think I found it a compliment, although embarrassing too. We were socialised to be flattered and I liked the fact that I was considered attractive - or at least that’s how I interpreted it at the time. Glad it’s not acceptable now though.

My late mum was a bit of a prude and would warn me off men in general so I was always a bit scared of most of them. She was abused by her uncle as a child , so was well aware of what many were capable of. She was born in the 1920s, so I don't think things have really moved on for the better really and the stories around more well known child molesters is just sickening and still goes on.
Luckily her abuser died before he could do any more real damage , but she was traumatized by what he did do to her. Some are just evil.
We do live in a messed up world.

I'm nearly 60 and it put me neither up nor down. You expected it when you walked past a building site, cos blokes were (presumably) bored at work and showing off to their mates.

It didn't say anything about you - they tended to do it to pretty girls and ugly ones. I occasionally gave a wave in return, but it was pretty meaningless.

Ugh no. These knuckle-dragging men. I used to have to put up with this walking home in school uniform.

It's fantastic now that there are regulations in place to put a stop to it. Women should be able to walk anywhere at anytime without being observed and assessed by skanky men.

I know that some women enjoy/enjoyed this but given that it's 'a joke' quite often, or like a dog-whistle command for women to pay men attention, I don't see where the flattery comes into it.

Different strokes I guess but I don't want it, never did - and the 'don't want it, wins.

Most definitely not.
are you?

I’m only early 30s so can’t comment on what older generations were like before me but I have to admit that I used to enjoy it.

In fact, I enjoyed any attention I got off of men, especially good looking ones.

Me and my female friends used to wolf whistle at men too.
Which I think was pretty common (was watching friends last night where Phoebe and Monica whistle at a man).

But as I got older (and got more respect for myself) I started disliking it.
I think becoming a parent to a daughter (and have look at her) definitely changed my opinion too.

For me, the wolf whistle isn’t offensive in itself but I would just like to go about my day without getting hit on, especially if I’m seen as being rude/a prude for not responding.

I do not like comments such as “nice tits” or “she’d get it” because that is disrespectful and completely unnecessary.

I hadn't read any posts other than OP's first when I posted and I've just read SpiderGwen's post. It's shocking that this happens and it just shows that men (not all) but some, will act on their proclivities to show children that they are nothing but sexual objects for the man's gratification.

I'm sorry that happened to you, SpiderGwen.