Single sex toilets and feminism

[DuesToTheDirt]

OK, maybe the toilet issue is getting done to death (and as we all know, single-sex provision is about far more than toilets). Anyway, given the number of women who seem to be ok with mixed-sex toilets, I want to know,

a) Do you consider yourself a feminist?
b) Do you support single-sex toilets (women only, no men, no transwomen)?
c) Do you consider feminism compatible with allowing transwomen into women's toilets?

I'm loosely defining "feminism" as supporting the rights, protections and advancement of women as a sex class, which by definition excludes men. By my definition "feminism" also excludes transwomen. I'm not really looking for people's opinion on individuals ("what about my lovely trans friend" etc), nor whether transwomen pass, nor whether they have been in women's toilets for decades. I want to know your opinons on women's rights.

For the poll:

YABU - feminism is compatible with accepting transwomen into women's toilets
YANBU - feminism is incompatible with allowing transwomen into women's toilets

Do you consider yourself a feminist?
Yes
Do you support single-sex toilets (women only, no men, no transwomen)?
Yes
Do you consider feminism compatible with allowing transwomen into women's toilets?
Yes. I don't dictate what a feminist is.

I think transphobia is anti-feminist.

Do you consider yourself a feminist?
Yes.

Do you support single-sex toilets (women only, no men, no transwomen)?
Frankly, my dear, I don’t give a damn.

Do you consider feminism compatible with allowing transwomen into women's toilets?
Yes. Feminism comes in many guises.

Can you explain how single-sexed loos would be enforced, and how they would solve the problems you think trans inclusive loos cause?

You'd need to explain that to me. Wanting female-only spaces, sports and services isn't "transphobic".

It's not feminism if you're saying "and some men".

I'm a Terf, so obviously I will never accept men in any female spaces, and transwomen are men

Do you consider yourself a feminist?
Life long feminist (I'm no spring chicken and campaigned for abortion rights (against Alton Bill) and against section 28 in the 80s, so I have been around the feminist block)

Do you support single-sex toilets (women only, no men, no transwomen)?
I support single-sex toilets - which transwomen, of course, can and do use and in reality no one notices or cares. I do not support excluding transwomen from women's toilets. I also support accessible toilets and gender neutral toilets with baby changing facilities for dads to access.

Do you consider feminism compatible with allowing transwomen into women's toilets?
Yes, I am ashamed of the transphobes of my vintage. It makes me sad.

a) Do you consider yourself a feminist?
Yes

b) Do you support single-sex toilets (women only, no men, no transwomen)?
Yes, not for myself, but for the many women who DO need single sex spaces, for ANY reason!
c) Do you consider feminism compatible with allowing transwomen into women's toilets?
Yes & No, feminism isn't just about this issue, so it's a bit more complicated than compatability.

I don’t think they’d be enforced just that there is a societal expectation that they’d be single sex. This has worked for decades surely? People are naturally suspicious of men who turn up in the ladies loos or changing rooms or other single sex spaces etc. It feels like the stories we hear about are often men who are deliberately seeking attention and validation.

I worked with a transwoman and was content to share facilities myself at conferences etc BUT I don't foist that view on other women.

Likewise I welcome transmen into single sex facilities.

yes I support single sex toilets (which transwomen have access to)

yes I am a feminist. feminism isn't anti man or anti trans. feminism that isn't inclusive isn't feminism.

I'm saddened by the anti trans movement appropriating feminism and mumsnet is full of it. I'm reassured to hear there are some other voices here though so commenting to echo that.

a) Do you consider yourself a feminist?
yes, I consider myself to be a strong feminist

b) Do you support single-sex toilets (women only, no men, no transwomen)?

No, trans women are women. Idgaf what’s in someone’s pants in the next cubicle

c) Do you consider feminism compatible with allowing transwomen into women's toilets?
Feminism is for all women. I do recognise that some women aren’t comfortable with trans women in the loo so I’m comfortable with gender neutral loos. In the olden days if the queue for the ladies was too long we’d go in the gents

In the very few places where single sex loos have been introduced it has not stopped abusive men. And under a single sex system any man can pretend to be a trans man to enter the women’s loos. In addition, GNC women get targeted by anti-trans people and told they should not be there.

Not that’s it’s likely to be a concern but trans women are in danger in men’s loos.

a) Do you consider yourself a feminist?

I don't really know. I know that I support women's rights.

b) Do you support single-sex toilets (women only, no men, no transwomen)?

Yes, toilets should be single sex and then provision made available that people can use who do not feel their gender matches their sex. Although I think toilets are the least of the issue, I am much more concerned about the availability of genuinely single sex: changing facilities, hospitals, prisons, rape/domestic abuse shelters, therapy groups, mental health facilities, intimate care provision....

c) Do you consider feminism compatible with allowing transwomen into women's toilets?

No, not really because if you deem it ok to force unconsenting females to be in an intimate situation with a male sexed person then I don't understand how you could consider yourself a champion of females.

I think toilets are a bit of a red herring because what is reasonable is so dependent on circumstances. Unisex loos are absolutely fine in many situations which gets around all these issues. In larger places eg shopping centres, airports then have multiple provisions is the answer to suit all circumstances. There's far more important feminist issues than toilets or even the trans issue eg pensions where women have been forced to take career breaks due to lack of childcare providers etc

Females need sex-based rights and single-sex spaces.
There are two sexes. Members of the male sex are on average larger, stronger, faster and more violent than members of the female sex. Because of those things, the world has historically been ruled by the male sex.
That is why females need sex-based rights and single sex spaces. As a small bulwark against the privilege of, and dangers inherent in, the male sex.
There can be no compromise because a single-sex space stops being single sex if there is one member of the opposite sex in it. The rules have to apply across the board because otherwise they become meaningless.
The fact that the rules sometimes aren't enough (the 'but men can attack you anywhere' argument) or don't work (the 'but my lovely TW friend goes into female spaces all the time and no one ever notices' argument) doesn't mean that the rules in themselves are wrong or shouldn't be upheld.
So yes I am a feminist and no I don't think TW should be in any female space.

There's far more important feminist issues than toilets or even the trans issue eg pensions where women have been forced to take career breaks due to lack of childcare providers etc

Who has created this hierarchy of importance?

I don't want blokes in the toilets, changing rooms or anywhere else I'm vulnerable.

It all just feels like you are making people pick between the people's front of Judea or the Judean people's front. Are you saying people can't be feminist if they don't mind trans people using the loos that align with their gender? Never mind anything else that person may do, or live, to show feminism?

I don't care if transwomen use the women's loos. I also consider myself to be a feminist. I don't feel the need to be told that femenism can only be the type you follow. I would rather we all band together and make gains overall instead of infighting.

Yes
Yes
No in almost every circimstance

How are you vulnerable behind the locked door of a cubicle @username44416? I’ll tell you where vulnerable women are really exposed to men and that’s on maternity wards but every new mother insists on her right to have her bloke there, that’s way worse.

Because I'm by myself in an enclosed space with a man I don't know. Many women and children have been molested and raped in toilets.

You’re not. You’re in a cubicle all by yourself.