To think we should all boycott John Lewis until they respect their female employees

[Lovelyview]

https://grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/resignation-letter-from-a-john-lewis

This is a letter from a female employee of John Lewis's Cheadle branch. John Lewis told its female employees that they have to share toilets and locker rooms with trans identifying men. The employee says this is having a terrible effect especially on colleagues who have experienced trauma relating to men or who have religious reasons to not want to share a space with someone who is the opposite sex.

Knowing that human beings can't change sex isn't a hate crime.

Sorry, I keep forgetting I need to use the words "biological" men

You might believe trans women are women in the same way that others might have strong religious beliefs. Fine. But they’re beliefs that cannot be proved in material reality. And we don’t generally compel people to act, or the state to legislate, on the basis of some niche beliefs.

@BernardBlacksBreakfastWine you simply haven’t addressed the question Where transgender people have been excluded the “we can always tell” crowd pick on GNC women and trans men. You want a bunch of gender critical people saying “you aren’t really a woman” to anyone they think is suspect? What happens then? The police inspect their chromosomes?

Oh dear. Did you really try this argument?

Black women, Muslim women, lesbians… all WOMEN.

How do you know none of us are black, Muslim or gay??

Yet again. No, I want to exclude biological men from MY ladies toilet.

Simple, sorry you can't understand.

Trans women do not have the right to be in women's loos. The Equality Act makes it legal to provide spaces separated by sex including changing rooms and toilets. John Lewis are breaching the Equality Act by forcing women to share spaces that are traditionally single sex such as toilets with men. Do you think women don't have the right to single sex spaces?

Trans women do not have the right to be in women's loos

Yes they do

And you did not read my answer or understand the analogy. You have an issue with the legal right of trans women to use women’s loos. This is your problem, not theirs. It’s fine for your to think TWANW, but gender critical people do not get to exclude people from a space which is equally theirs. Your ideology can certainly be accommodated but not by excluding an entire class of people.

Do not conflate “women’s rights” with gender critical beliefs.

. The Equality Act makes it legal to provide spaces separated by sex including changing rooms and toilets.

What the hell are you talking about?

Do you think there should be any single-sex spaces?

I do. Perhaps you don’t. (You won’t answer so I don’t know). I think a lot of people would be upset if there were none.

So, if there are single sex spaces, I am prepared to accept that there might be times when these boundaries are not observed. There may be the very occasional trans woman who passes. Fine. I accept that. There may be the odd trans man who makes the odd woman look twice. I feel I can safely say that most women would be unsure enough not to challenge. In fact, I wouldn’t imagine much challenging would go on at all.

But, if everyone is in general agreement that women’s loos are for women, we can challenge the obvious bloke who’s trying his luck. And we can expect support with that challenge rather than virtue-signalling bullshit. But under your system (which you haven’t explained so I’m guessing again) a huge bloke with a beard could barge in, playfully announce that he’s actually a woman, wink wink, and no one could do anything.

Correct and irrelevant. Providers can exclude trans women from single sex spaces if it’s a proportionate means for a legitimate end.

First, it’s the provider’s choice and second, it’s not proportionate or legitimate.

You have an issue with men not having access to women,that's your problem.

@BernardBlacksBreakfastWine of course there can and should be single sex spaces as governed by the EA2010. Loos are not in that category.

Your solution does not solve the problem it purports to solve. Your hypothetical male predator could simply say he is a trans man.

it’s just laughable that you think abusive men would be put off by loos being single sex.

And, of course, you’ve ignored the enforcement question.

I guess you've not considered having compassion for the women mentioned in the original letter. Those with trauma and religious reasons for wanting to have single sex spaces. Do you think there should be no female only spaces at all? Changing rooms, rape crisis centres? Prisons? Do you understand why there are spaces separated by sex? Do you understand that 'trans women' retain male patterns of sexual and violent offending which are massively higher than those of women? Do you think the Darlington nurses should have 'acceptance and compassion ' for the creepy bloke who asked them when they are going to get undressed in the changing room at work. He 'identifies' as a woman while trying to conceive a child with his partner. It's all utter rubbish and it's not transphobic to point it out.

@BernardBlacksBreakfastWine your example is absolute drivel. There is no protected category of adult children and you have moved the goalposts from loos to sports. Gender reassignment is a protected category, and trans women can and do use women’s loos because it is their right. You want to change that right.

Of course I am a man as my username makes very clear. I have no interest in being in single sex spaces.

You’re aware that gender reassignment (for which neither a GRC nor any medical treatment is required) is a protected characteristic under EA10?

While identifying as a child is not a protected characteristic?

So your ‘analogy’ is nonsense?

Loos can very much be in that category.

Bit rich of you to suggest I’ve avoided a question. I explained very clearly that the general consensus and the shared understanding of a clear law would generally be sufficient. Did you miss that? Even now, in the world we currently inhabit, with blokes like you hell-bent on forcing men into women’s loos, it doesn’t happen much. So, yes, I think if everyone came back to their senses and there was clear legislation that couldn’t be misinterpreted by the likes of you, the system would work.

Of course it can’t be iron clad though 🙄 But why do you want women to be less safe when they could be safer?

However, you’ve said you go agree with single-sex spaces in some situations, so let’s try another situation then. How about… a rape crisis centre? Is that ok? Can women have that to themselves?

@BernardBlacksBreakfastWine Trans women are already in women’s loos - I am
defending their right to be there from people who want to exclude them - not “shoehorning them in.”

You absolutely did not address the of how single-sex loos would be enforced - you can’t because they are unenforceable.

Single sex loos simply do not make women “more safe.” They don’t stop abusive men, and put GNC women, trans men and trans women in greater danger.

RCC’s are entitled to exclude trans women altogether, have groups for gender critical women without trans women, or always be inclusive. All of those are chouces for the RCC. Providers should not be forced to include or exclude trans women and they are not.

Well, age is a protected characteristic, isn’t it? But, as you can see, just because something is on the list, it doesn’t mean it can never be acknowledged or used as a reasonable segregating tool. Sex is also a protected characteristic, isn’t it.

Adult child makes just as much sense as female man, btw.

The trouble is that the EA2010 does allow some interpretation about what’s reasonable and what’s not. That’s because it was written before people like you saw a way to use it to beat women (metaphorically, of course). Most people did not see this coming - this weas weaselly desperation to wilfully twist reasonable legislation until it becomes unreasonable,

So, come on then, who gets to go to your rape crisis centre? I’d be interested for the TWAW posters to say too. Be fun if they disagreed with you!

I think currently they are put off, by simple convention. Now abusive men appear to have not even convention as boundaries.

Cross-post. Right, so you acknowledge that trans women aren’t women then, so they can’t go to the RCC.

Don’t think your fellow MRAs are going to agree with you…

Interestingly while rummaging around on the Equality Act guidelines I found the following:

You will also need to take account of the Workplace (Health, Safety and Welfare) Regulations 1992 which require employers to provide a certain number of toilets and to provide separate toilet and washing facilities for men and women in some circumstances.* *Guidance can be found on the Health and Safety Executive website.

This seems to imply that John Lewis are breaching workplace regulations which say that separate toilet and washing facilities need to be provided. Although our band of TRAs will be happy to assure us that if a man even thinks about being a woman he has started gender reassignment and that over-rides everything. (Clue: it doesn't)

Would anyone like to venture a guess as to why rights to separate sex provision were originally enshrined in law? Could it be because women need separate sex facilities for their safety, dignity and privicy?

No, I do not acknowledge that trans women are not women, merely that single sex spaces can, if there is a legitimate reason and it’s proportionate they can be excluded.

MRAs, like all misogynists, hate trans women, but unlike gender critical people don’t make transphobia their whole personality.