To call out friend on 'body positivity' delusion?

[treesandflowers95]

My bestie (i'll call her 'J') and I have been friends since primary school. She's godmother to my DD and we almost see each other as sisters as friends.

J has always been a curvier girl but as we've gone through our 20s, she's steadily put on more and more weight. She's 5ft 2 and now a size 30. Over the last couple of years its been noticeable how much into the 'body positivity' movement shes got. Her socials are full of shared posts about it, and she'll often bring it up in conversation.

Its not something i've ever really made an issue of with her before as though it worries me for her, i've always been of the view that everybody's body is their own business.

However we were on a hen do a few weeks ago, and honestly it was a real eye opener to just how big she's got and the impact that's starting to have on her health. The first one for me was that she needed a seatbelt extender on the flight and she seemed to think it was hilarious. We stayed in a villa on the edge of a little area with a strip of bars and restaurants. It was 350yds (i put it into Google maps) and slightly downhill on the way there and uphill on the way back, but nothing major. J was struggling to keep up with us on the way there, and on the way back was having to stop at least once because she was so out of breath. Bear in mind this was a group of girls quite a few in heels etc so its not like we were sprinting, and shes sweating and bright red. Aside from that, even basic stuff round the villa like walking upstairs (it was over 3 floors) and she struggled climbing up and down the ladders in and out of the pool. I didnt say anything to her at the time but its played on my mind.

This weekend there were four of us (all close friends) who'd been on the hen do out for drinks in the pub. We were talking about the hen do and i can't remember how it came up, but she started talking about the walk back to the villa and how steep the hill was etc. I said to her something along the lines of 'Oh it wasn't that bad' to which she replied 'Are you joking, it was so steep!' and was basically trying to get the other girls to agree and I just left it.

A bit later in the conversation she was talking about some body positivity stuff and how its about how you look after yourself and not how much you weigh. I've bit my tongue at stuff like this loads of times, but this time i said 'I think that's true to an extent but there's a point where you can't argue that you're healthy'. She didn't look happy and said 'what are you saying?'. I basically said that the fact she thought that walk on holiday was so difficult that she should have struggled with it so much was worrying, and might suggest her health wasn't as good as she seems to think it is. The reality is (and I didn't say this to her) that she eats really badly and drinks quite a lot. She spends loads on hair, make up, nails, etc which she considers as looking after herself.

She got really frosty with me, and has been funny in texts since, not her usual self, so i know i've annoyed her.

Fully accept it may not have been the best way to bring it up especially in front of others (but it wasnt like it was strangers, we're all mates back to primary school) but i just felt like it wasn't a time where i could just say nothing in the moment.

So i guess question is AIBU to have brought this up with her, and any advice on how to handle things next.

You sound like such a good friend to me, you’ve really tried to hold your tongue and be careful and you’re genuinely worried about what your friends doing to herself. She is very lucky to have you. You have also put up with listening to a load of bullshit about self-care and body positivity. I find this really hard when people are deluding themselves and expecting you to nod and agree. So yeah, basically you’ve done something a bit unskilful for sure but understandable.
you don’t sound condescending at all, you are right and it’s her fragility and inability to face reality that’s ultimately going ti hurt her, by hurting her body and also alienating people which she is doing now.
we are very focused on the individual in the west, but in other cultures a persons self care is seen as caring for the community who loves them. I think we owe it to the people who love us to take good care of ourselves and to be kind and listen to them when they raise concerns about our health. This is a very radical idea for a lot of people and frankly I don’t care if anyone disagrees. I had to grow up watching my mother and sisters abusing themselves and neglecting their own health with devastating consequences for them, their children and anybody who cares about them.
You are a good friend, best you can do is say sorry for being unskilful and I guess don’t bring it up again because she’s too fragile to talk about it.

There is absolutely no one who is size 30 who doesn’t worry about their weight, no matter how they might discuss it with others.

If you are as concerned as you say you are, you could have mentioned it to her privately and offered to go walking together, for example. Embarrassing her in front of the group was unnecessary and unkind. Everyone, including her, can see that she is overweight. You were more interested in being “right” than in being a friend.

I would apologise and explain you just want the best for her. Ultimately, she is an adult and it’s up to her how she wants to live her life.

Sometimes it's kinder to just murmur "mmmm" and change the subject rather than entering a conversation which is highly unlikely to have a positive outcome, regardless of good intentions.

Not every thought has to be expressed, no matter how valid it is. We are not children.

I used to have a friend who prided herself on 'speaking her mind'. Before our friendship ended, she was down to her last friend (me).

I have another friend who has been overweight all her adult life. We have rarely spoken of it. Several times she has lost huge amounts of weight. If she raises the subject I tell her she looks amazing. When the weight goes back on, I never mention it. When I see her I tell her she looks fab (she does, wears beautiful clothes, always well groomed, the kindest person imaginable), she tells me the same. Neither of us are gorgeous but we love each other and have been friends for a quarter of a century. Recently she lost a good bit of weight and it's staying off. Unless she mentions it I don't say a thing other than to tell her she looks wonderful. Weight is only one aspect of her as a person. We are both in our 50s, both love and accept the other just as we are.

YANBU

I was 19 stone and someone had a frank conversation with me and it was the catalyst to be now being 11st.

Sometimes people need a reality check, as painful as it is.

This.

I would be crushed if a friend brought up my current health in a group setting. I have been underweight and very slim for half my life, and for periods I've been obese, then thin, and currently a size 16. I am trapped in shame and exhaustion. I know my health isn't good and I've lost lots of muscle. I feel hundreds of miles away from the 'self' that surely must still exist, the one that likes going for long walks and doesn't drink heavily frequently. I barely leave the house.

Your friend is there with herself every time she gets worryingly out of breath when she goes up a flight of stairs. She's there with herself in the shower or the bath, or putting clothes on. She's there when she walks towards the doors of a shop and can see her reflection.

All you did was stage an intervention by bringing a plateful of shame to a table that was already overladen with it.

Can you use body positivity back to her.

Message to say you think she looks great but you are worried about the impact on her health because you love her and want her to be able to enjoy life fully.

My friend's sister was very like this and died very suddenly in her 30s. Such a waste as she was amazingly talented and a lovely person

YANBU to think this way - and I say this as someone who's a size 18/20 and doesn't take very good care of themselves. I'm well aware of the impact on my health and the fact that I like how my body looks doesn't erase that.

However, YABU to have brought it up with her on holiday. It was unkind and the way you did it was never going to have any outcome other than her feeling hurt.

If you were my friend I would be incredibly hurt that you had done this and it would make me re-evaluate our friendship.

Even if I was morbidly obese, I would not expect a friend to bring it up (even if out of 'concern') in public. She knows full well she is overweight, and maybe the body positivity stuff helps her feel better about it. You have basically shit all over her feelings in order to prioritise yours.

My view of body positivity is this: I hope that whoever it is, either extremely overweight or extremely underweight or anywhere between should be able to feel good about how they look. I want them to feel confident when they walk out of their front door however they dress, whatever their ethnicity, however their hair is. I find this is, as women, a very difficult thing to achieve so I congratulate those women and men that feel positive about their body image.

However, there is a difference between feeling confident in how you look and deluding yourself about your health. If you can't walk too far because you're so overweight, or you can't exercise much because you're not nourishing yourself with food enough then you can be as confident in your appearance as you like but you cannot say you are healthy.

As someone who has struggled with weight for as long as I can remember, I find it extraordinary that people (here and in general) seem to think pointing out obesity is harmful is tough love or will be an eye opener to the person the comment is aimed at. Anyone who is obese knows that exercise is good, that lettuce is better than chips etc, being fat does not make you stupid.

Psychologically the change has to come from within the fat person if they want to lose weight, and being shamed (because that is what is feels like) by friends or family will not bolster their self esteem in any way. Does anyone imagine that shaming a smoker - for example - would be a lightbulb moment for them and make them quit?

I agree the body positivity movement can glamourise being overweight/obese but I can guarantee you that criticism and judgement from anyone - friend or not - may well have the opposite effect of making them lose weight.

I think it was a big mistake to say this in front of other people because while it might have been a discussion between friends to you, it will have felt extremely embarrassing to her and like you're calling her out in front of all her mates. You didn't talk in general about people being over weight you specifically talked about her struggling to walk.

I would message her and say you're really sorry if you upset her on holiday, that she's a really good friend and you're just worried about her.

This with bells on. Then the introduction of the word “disease” to describe obesity. IMO that description take away personal responsibility as it’s easier to justify being obese by saying well it’s a disease.

Some people definitely do have conditions that make them put on weight quicker or make it more difficult to lose weight but that’s not the case for everyone. If someone weighs 20 stone and a dietitian gives them only 1000 calories a day to eat, they would absolutely lose weight so it absolutely is calorie in vs calorie out.

The health problems cause by obesity are so serious, but when you’re younger you feel more invincible.

@treesandflowers95 some of the responses you’ve had really highlight the issues you are dealing with.

you sound concerned for your friend and frustrated at how her behaviour is damaging her health. Yet, so many posters have criticised you for being nasty and not thinking about her. Id hazard a guess these posters have weight issues, which shows the level of defensiveness around the topic and the difficulties you’ll have trying to help your friend.

i think you were right not to collude in her delusion. As pp’s have said, she knows she’s fat. But she’s trying to excuse it.

I have a friend who is obese with lots of related health problems. She knows it- she’s a very bright woman and doesn’t delude herself that she’s healthy. As a result, I never comment or make it an issue. She doesn’t need me to say what she already knows.

I know I’m not being helpful OP, but would say just leave her to it and be supportive if she reaches out for help

Yeah there's being a bit chubby or overweight but a size 30 is morbidly obese and disgusting! And she's short as well! How does she even find clothes to fit her?

I'd love to know how to help a friend who is severely overweight. I have a couple, I love them to pieces, but I seriously worry that their health issues (because I strongly believe their weight is related to other physical and mental health issues). I'd love to help, but have no idea how without making things worse. It's tough but really, you just have to enjoy your friends company as you always have, worry about them endlessly without showing it and hope one day they will be in a position to help themselves and ask for help while they do it.

YAVBU

A group setting was not the time for this conversation.

I'm not surprised your ex friend is frosty.

All those applauding the OP, would you really be OK with being humiliated in front of your friends? Would you really be thinking good for her for saying something, I needed that?
I doubt it.

Ditto, I would not want to sit next to my obese friend on a 'plane.

Wow, a lot to take in here!

Like i said in my original post I totally accept it probably wasn't the best place to bring it up, but i would just say that the four of us there have been friends for 20 years and we talk about everything. It wasnt just some random group of people i said it in front of, and she was initiating the conversations on this. I will apologise to her for saying it in that forum though.

I really object to people saying i don't really care or that i was trying to humiliate her though! We've been besties since we were 5 and I love her like a sister.

It genuinely upsets me seeing what she's doing to her health when shes only 28. Obviously i've seen her getting bigger, like even looking at pics of her from DD's christening 2 years ago compared to now the difference is really clear (I remember around that time her telling me she was about 21 stone), but its never been about her looks to me and she's always very confident in who she is.

I think the reason the hen do shocked me so much was because its the first time in a long time ive seen her have to be active. When we meet up at home, she always drives or taxis, so i never see her walking far etc. Seeing her on that walk on the hen do genuinely shocked me, and i could tell that some of the other girls had exactly the same thought.

@treesandflowers95 body positivity is just another word for obesity!! I agree with OP! she needs to lose weight before diabetes starts in or she drops down dead of a heart attack! tell her this little unknown truth! For every one pound overweight a person is, their blood has to travel 22 miles further!!!! think how hard her heart has to work to get her blood round her body!!!

Don't know what you thought you were achieving by bringing it up, your friend knows her size, she knows she struggled and you don't need to point it out

Friend : that was a big steep hill and such a long walk back to the villa (repeatedly)

OP : it wasn’t that bad

Friend : it was so steep and so far.

OP: It was a mild incline, and only a distance of 300 yards. The fact you thought that walk on holiday was so difficult and struggled with it so much is worrying, and maybe suggests your health wasn't as good as you seems to think it is.

Said in front of small group of trusted old friends.

How is that rude or unreasonable? It’s basic conversation based on facts and care. It’s gaslighting to say otherwise!

I'd be extremely worried about someone I loved if they were severely overweight to the extent that their health and longevity was impacted.

The same as if I had a friend who was a heavy smoker or drug addict.

The body positivity movement has become incredibly toxic and dangerous. Several body positive influences have died because of they were hugely overweight. They're completely delusional bur you can't argue with them because you're accused of being "fatphobic".
YANBU but I wouldn't have entered into discussion with her. It was never going to end well.