To call out friend on 'body positivity' delusion?

[treesandflowers95]

My bestie (i'll call her 'J') and I have been friends since primary school. She's godmother to my DD and we almost see each other as sisters as friends.

J has always been a curvier girl but as we've gone through our 20s, she's steadily put on more and more weight. She's 5ft 2 and now a size 30. Over the last couple of years its been noticeable how much into the 'body positivity' movement shes got. Her socials are full of shared posts about it, and she'll often bring it up in conversation.

Its not something i've ever really made an issue of with her before as though it worries me for her, i've always been of the view that everybody's body is their own business.

However we were on a hen do a few weeks ago, and honestly it was a real eye opener to just how big she's got and the impact that's starting to have on her health. The first one for me was that she needed a seatbelt extender on the flight and she seemed to think it was hilarious. We stayed in a villa on the edge of a little area with a strip of bars and restaurants. It was 350yds (i put it into Google maps) and slightly downhill on the way there and uphill on the way back, but nothing major. J was struggling to keep up with us on the way there, and on the way back was having to stop at least once because she was so out of breath. Bear in mind this was a group of girls quite a few in heels etc so its not like we were sprinting, and shes sweating and bright red. Aside from that, even basic stuff round the villa like walking upstairs (it was over 3 floors) and she struggled climbing up and down the ladders in and out of the pool. I didnt say anything to her at the time but its played on my mind.

This weekend there were four of us (all close friends) who'd been on the hen do out for drinks in the pub. We were talking about the hen do and i can't remember how it came up, but she started talking about the walk back to the villa and how steep the hill was etc. I said to her something along the lines of 'Oh it wasn't that bad' to which she replied 'Are you joking, it was so steep!' and was basically trying to get the other girls to agree and I just left it.

A bit later in the conversation she was talking about some body positivity stuff and how its about how you look after yourself and not how much you weigh. I've bit my tongue at stuff like this loads of times, but this time i said 'I think that's true to an extent but there's a point where you can't argue that you're healthy'. She didn't look happy and said 'what are you saying?'. I basically said that the fact she thought that walk on holiday was so difficult that she should have struggled with it so much was worrying, and might suggest her health wasn't as good as she seems to think it is. The reality is (and I didn't say this to her) that she eats really badly and drinks quite a lot. She spends loads on hair, make up, nails, etc which she considers as looking after herself.

She got really frosty with me, and has been funny in texts since, not her usual self, so i know i've annoyed her.

Fully accept it may not have been the best way to bring it up especially in front of others (but it wasnt like it was strangers, we're all mates back to primary school) but i just felt like it wasn't a time where i could just say nothing in the moment.

So i guess question is AIBU to have brought this up with her, and any advice on how to handle things next.

I mean obviously obesity fat positivity is an insane culty movement but it's also a massive cope for people who struggle to lose weight and are in massive cognitive dissonance around it. I definitely wouldn't try to challenge that thinking, just gently disagree in situations like you describe about the hill being steep, and changing the subject when she starts saying FA talking points. Ugh.

To me, body positivity is about taking all the hateful opinions out of the weight issue, especially the internalised ones that are so damaging.

And I think that community has done an incredible job of changing the dialogue – to the point where fat phobics do know they aren’t allowed to openly tell fat people they are lazy and disgusting anymore.

But they’ve still got unhealthy to fall back on.

So you may have said something completely reasonable that came from a place of concern but that won’t be how it felt to her.

YANBU to be concerned, but YABU to address it in front of others. Surely you can see why that would be embarrassing for her? Also, it’s quite possible that the “body positivity” and excessive weight gain in fact a defence mechanism.

I don’t think that shaming people helps them. This holiday was the first time you realised just how much her weight affects her, but your friend lives with this every day. She will have comments said to her and about her everyday and will probably try to counteract this by positivity. If you value her and your friendship I think maybe an apology and asking how she feels and offering to listen without judgement might be a good first step.

It’s so hard either way. I agree bringing it up in front of the group isn’t ideal but if she’s constantly pushing people to agree with her to reinforce her belief then what do you do.

I’m a size 26-30 depending on the shop and fit. I too struggle with the body positivity movement. I like the emphasis on accepting people as they are, also on not waiting till your a size 10 to dress nicely etc but I’m also a doctor and the health stuff where people try and say they aren’t inherently unhealthy just because of the weight is delusional. I’m now on a GLP1 injection and awaiting bariatric surgery-one thing I will say is at this size you can’t win. If you are exercising/eating healthy you get negative commentary and same if you’re piling your plate high with junk.

I hope for a greater acceptance towards morbid obesity as a condition that requires more than just an ‘eat less, move more’ mindset as there is how strong evidence it won’t work for people at my and your friends size.

YANBU including to say it within a trusted group of her oldest friends.

I think what you said was very restrained tbh.

It’s like speaking to someone who is in a harmful cult, on drugs or an alcoholic. She’s harming herself and by the sounds of it been brain washed, and it will result in her early death. What you said was a kindness.

I wouldn't have said what you said, especially not in public.

But on the other hand, being as she keeps on talking about this subject, I do think she is a bit unreasonable to get so huffy with you. It’s really unfair when people think they are entitled to monologue at you repeatedly on their pet subject, and you are never allowed a counter opinion.

I was once a similar size to your friend (now losing weight) and I completely agree with you.

When you are that large and do spend a lot of time online it is very very easy to fall into the body positivity side of the internet which to give you a bit of perspective, is weirdly cult-like and very very damaging. I fell into it too at quite a young age and obviously my actions are mine to own but it's very easy to just believe it all. I now have type two diabetes which was my wakeup call.

No one is healthy at the size she is. Quite apart from anything else the food she will be eating will be destroying her from the inside. Hopefully your comment is the beginning of her wakeup call.

Oh it's so hard. I agree with you that this "health at every size" nonsense is really dangerous. While yes, some olympic shot putter or weight lifter might be technically obese and also very healthy, they're an outlier and certainly not a yardstick for every obese person to measure their own health against.

I'm all for body positivity in the sense that everyone has a right to feel comfortable in their skin and be treated as a human regardless of their size, but it's become something else entirely now... Obesity positivity. Denial. Outrage at the suggestion that obesity is very, very rarely better than not obesity.

However as a formerly obese person, I can tell you the denial is POWERFUL. The wake up call rarely comes from another person. She definitely knows she's obese, but she's entrenched herself in the HAES nonsense to guard her own self esteem. Your heart was in the right place and I fully get why you said what you said (and if you can't be blunt with your closest friends, who can you be with?) but when you're that deep in denial going on the defensive is the only option to any questioning of your lifestyle.

Suggest maybe a more gentle chat where you apologise for being blunt, but that what you said came from a place of genuine concern and you're worried for her health and wellbeing? It probs still won't go over well but might pluck a tiny bit of wool from her eyes.

I don't think you were genuinely concerned, what you did was cruel and embarrassing. You owe her a big apology, but if I were her I'd find better friends. With friends like you, who needs enemies

No, you are not being unreasonable.

She's deluded, and she's trying to get you to buy into it as well.

It wasn't a steep hill and she can't manipulate you into saying it was because it fits with her narrative.

I don’t understand why you needed to say anything at all? What weird thing to think your friend needed “help” recognising and what a very strange way to go about it if you did.

Tough one.

Obviously you are right and she's not healthy, you have seen that proven on holiday, but equally there is no value in bringing it up unless she's actually asking you directly what you think about her.

I understand how it's frustrating as it sounds like she's going over the top to bring it into the conversation and almost pre-empt others' opinions on her size and health, but it will never pay to be honest with someone who's doing this.

I'd message her and apologise and say you didn't mean to be hurtful.

Since she brought it up, I don't think your were unreasonable to responds with what was really on your mind.

She may be right about it not being about size, however it seems to me that she never walks stairs or hills. She could be heavy and still have good stamina, but that doesn't seem to be the case with her.

I hate how the body positivity movement got so warped. 10 years ago it seemed all about what your body can do, not what it looks like. Now it just seems the opposite of being conventionally thin and pretty, but it is very much about looks if size is all that matters.

I think you were bang out of order to call her out like that in front of other people. I actually can't believe so many people have said you are not being unreasonable.

Body positivity isn't about physical health for a start. It's about understanding that no matter what your body looks like, you are still deserving of love and confidence and respect and that you can appreciate the things your body does for you and the strength it holds. You can be overweight and be body positive while still recognising that your physical health would be better if you lost weight/ ate healthily/exercised more. The point of the movement is that you don't need to walk around in a shame spiral hating yourself and your body because you're overweight. (Which is deeply unhealthy in itself let's be honest). It's about separating your value as a person from being thin.

She's not stupid, she knows she's not healthy, she will have felt the struggle to keep up with the rest of you. The difference is that she's choosing not to use that as a stick to continously beat herself with and is trying to get on with life in a happier way.

I used to really massively struggle with my body image - even at a size 6-8 I felt huge. I'm now much bigger than that but body positivity has helped me have a much healthier mindset on it. I exercise and I try to eat in a balanced way but now I don't berate myself for having junk food. My mental health is significantly better as a result and I value myself much, much more. Physical health is not the only type of health. Who are you to tell her that she can't choose how to live?

Not unreasonable. Unfortunate and awkward, but not unreasonable.

You were put on the spot by her insistence the hill was so steep. To say nothing in response was to agree with her and if you agreed you’d be lying.

Good friends don’t lie to each other.

To those who say OP humiliated her friend: as cruel as this sounds this is sometimes needed. I'll never forget how humiliated I was when I found out I had type two diabetes and I wasn't told kindly. It also finally gave me the kick up the bum I needed. I was 375lbs, I'm now 250lbs.

Her weight is her business. But I see that it's hard to continually bite your tongue when she's the one bringing it up all the time. I think I would quickly run out of patience for a friendship where one person is constantly dictating the topic of conversation, and no one else is allowed to say what they actually think about it.

Of course she is deluding herself - you know it and she knows it but you didn't need to bring it up - not in front of other people and, in fact, not at all. She is an adult, she is well aware that she struggled walking uphill and upstairs - do you think she hadn't noticed that?

Be supportive if she wants to discuss healthy eating or whatever but please don't patronise her by pointing out the glaringly obvious.

Yes, I would think she is very hurt by what she probably feels is you 'shaming' her. I would contact her and apologise. Tell her you love her and are truly sorry if you have caused her any pain. Don't follow up with "but I am telling you for your own good" or "I am worried about you". Just be sorry and mean it.

What she does, or doesn't do, about her weight is her business. Just be there for her when / if she ever wants to talk about it.

Yabu but only because its clearly pointless. She's spending money on stuff that doesn't require a dress size (nails hair make up) and is deluded about her health in a way that suggests something like actual body dysmorphia or a wilful desire to believe a fallacy to protect her mental health, akin to those that go down the conspiracy theory warren

Basically you can't reason against her faith. She has faith in the movement for whatever reason and will choose it every time. You're wasting your breath even if you mean well.

I see obesity as a mental health issue. She's crying inside. All the laughing things off etc is just a cover. You humiliated her in front of the other friends.
Could you apologise and try to talk to her privately. Nobody chooses to be overweight. I truly believe some of us are hard wired to putting on weight whether that be a physical propensity or mental, or both.
I've struggled with my weight all my life. I know I'm fat! I'm not blind. But I really struggle to lose weight. I don't need 'friends' telling me I'm overweight.

I have never needed to 'bite my tongue' to speak nicely and appropriately to my friends, regardless of what the subject was. It certainly doesn't sound like OP was being reasonable in speaking that way in front of a group and it clearly upset her friend.

You are being a good friend.
People who don’t care about her will encourage her in her self-deception.

“Faithful are the wounds of a friend, but deceitful are the kisses of an enemy.”
Proverbs 27:6