To call out friend on 'body positivity' delusion?

[treesandflowers95]

My bestie (i'll call her 'J') and I have been friends since primary school. She's godmother to my DD and we almost see each other as sisters as friends.

J has always been a curvier girl but as we've gone through our 20s, she's steadily put on more and more weight. She's 5ft 2 and now a size 30. Over the last couple of years its been noticeable how much into the 'body positivity' movement shes got. Her socials are full of shared posts about it, and she'll often bring it up in conversation.

Its not something i've ever really made an issue of with her before as though it worries me for her, i've always been of the view that everybody's body is their own business.

However we were on a hen do a few weeks ago, and honestly it was a real eye opener to just how big she's got and the impact that's starting to have on her health. The first one for me was that she needed a seatbelt extender on the flight and she seemed to think it was hilarious. We stayed in a villa on the edge of a little area with a strip of bars and restaurants. It was 350yds (i put it into Google maps) and slightly downhill on the way there and uphill on the way back, but nothing major. J was struggling to keep up with us on the way there, and on the way back was having to stop at least once because she was so out of breath. Bear in mind this was a group of girls quite a few in heels etc so its not like we were sprinting, and shes sweating and bright red. Aside from that, even basic stuff round the villa like walking upstairs (it was over 3 floors) and she struggled climbing up and down the ladders in and out of the pool. I didnt say anything to her at the time but its played on my mind.

This weekend there were four of us (all close friends) who'd been on the hen do out for drinks in the pub. We were talking about the hen do and i can't remember how it came up, but she started talking about the walk back to the villa and how steep the hill was etc. I said to her something along the lines of 'Oh it wasn't that bad' to which she replied 'Are you joking, it was so steep!' and was basically trying to get the other girls to agree and I just left it.

A bit later in the conversation she was talking about some body positivity stuff and how its about how you look after yourself and not how much you weigh. I've bit my tongue at stuff like this loads of times, but this time i said 'I think that's true to an extent but there's a point where you can't argue that you're healthy'. She didn't look happy and said 'what are you saying?'. I basically said that the fact she thought that walk on holiday was so difficult that she should have struggled with it so much was worrying, and might suggest her health wasn't as good as she seems to think it is. The reality is (and I didn't say this to her) that she eats really badly and drinks quite a lot. She spends loads on hair, make up, nails, etc which she considers as looking after herself.

She got really frosty with me, and has been funny in texts since, not her usual self, so i know i've annoyed her.

Fully accept it may not have been the best way to bring it up especially in front of others (but it wasnt like it was strangers, we're all mates back to primary school) but i just felt like it wasn't a time where i could just say nothing in the moment.

So i guess question is AIBU to have brought this up with her, and any advice on how to handle things next.

The problem with what you said is that you made it about her by pointing out that she found the walk difficult.

In that conversation, I would have spoken generally about how it's not healthy to be over a certain weight that you can't do day to day activities - but I wouldn't have drawn attention to her specifically.

If you care about your friend then you need to try and be supportive of her as a person without outwardly agreeing with the body positivity nonsense, and certainly not criticising her inability to walk up a hill.

Since she brought it up, I don't think your were unreasonable to responds with what was really on your mind.

I see what you mean but then I also think if the person bringing it up and talking about it most is the person who it most impacts then I think it does need to be handled with some sensitivity as it's an emotive topic.

It's like if she was going bald and was saying she actually really likes it and it's easier to manage and you can still have nice hair even if it's thinning etc etc...no one is going to pipe up and be like err actually no, you're wrong - people would be sensitive to the fact that she's saying these things to feel better about something she's likely conscious of and they'd just nod along.

Obviously going bald is less of a choice than many feel obesity is, but the emotional impact is still there.

I agree with you (and I speak as someone who has been obese). There is a lot of delusion and outright misinformation in the fat-positivity movement.

However, I don't think it was ever going to be a good idea to raise that with your friend. She isn't going to lose weight because you tell her she's too fat to be healthy. She has attached herself to the body positivity movement because, ultimately, she wants to be at peace with her size - and that's entirely her prerogative. You can worry about her health all you want, but it's her body at the end of the day and as much as this is coming from what I assume is a good place in your heart, it's honestly none of your business.

I strongly suspect that your friend has tried to lose weight and hasn't been successful, probably for very complex psychological reasons, and inwardly has felt very bad about that and, whether she shows it or not, has struggled with her self-esteem as a result. She has made a choice to stop struggling with that and to do whatever it takes for her to feel a bit happier about herself, and for her that's the fat positivity movement. You might not agree with it (and neither do I) but it's almost certainly making her feel better about herself, and that's a valuable thing. She isn't suddenly going to lose weight because you tell her it's unhealthy to be fat. She's made peace with herself and that's her choice.

I think for some people there comes a point when they realise that constantly trying and inevitably failing to lose weight is making them really, really unhappy. They have tried to lose weight and ended up miserable, and still fat. Eventually, they make a choice to stop trying to lose weight, and although they are still fat, at least they don't hate themselves as well.

I completely understand your concerns, and like you I think the 'healthy at any size' stuff is a whole load of total bollocks. But I just don't think you have enough insight into what's going on in your friend's head to fully understand why she's made this choice, and you need to accept that it's probably one that's making her a lot happier. I personally would rather have an unhealthy but happy friend than a depressed and self-hating one, and I suspect you would too.

She'll only lose weight when she wants to, I'm afraid. No friendly conversations or even public shaming (not that you did that, obviously) will help either - they just destroy confidence - and when people hate themselves they don't prioritise health.

Send her some flowers with a card saying you love her and you're sorry. When you see her next, please tell her you are just a bit worried about her but you won't do it again.

You can't save her from herself, OP.

She is in denial. It is actually really easy to convince yourself that you are ok when you are really overweight . I did - but there are things like not being able to get up a hill on holiday that SHOULD make you think.

Having lost 2.5 stone I now struggle to see how I couldn’t see what a problem my weight was and didn’t do something earlier. But I was stuck in a cycle of poor eating sleep stress and exhaustion.

I would have a chat with her and just listen. It’s great that she feels positive about herself ( I did) but it did hinder me losing weight as I didn’t see myself as unhealthy. It took me struggling on holiday, seeing my mum have a hip and knee replacement to do something.

I think you were right to be honest, and to no longer enable her choices that are making her sick. I wish I was brave enough to do this with a friend who is in a similar conundrum although be it much worse.

Truth is, we wouldn't be so enabling if she was using heroin or crack cocaine.

Your thinking is correct. You raising it with your friend is correct but the way you raised it was wrong

If it was the opposite, she'd be on a ward receiving treatment for anorexia.
Should be the same for morbidly obese people. It's a mental illness.

Shaming her won't help though, it'll make it worse.

Ion't think you were wrong OP. Maybe it would have been better to say something in the moment. OTOH, I think she opened the door to that conversation, and she can't expect her good friends to all nod along.

I know a few pp have said she already knows, I would argue she does in a way, but she is working very hard to talk herself out of it, and that is why she is trying to always put you guys in a position of agreeing with her. It helps to maintain the illusion, and I think in the end you were probably right not to play along. No differernt than if it were an addiction issue. Yes, only the individual can deal with it, but you probably shouldn't help them deny reality when they try and pull you in.

The body positivity stuff has a kernel of truth to it of course. It's important to basically love your physical body - that's part of what makes you want to keep it healthy. Trying not to have a hateful relationship, and taking care of it and how you present is basically a good thing, and should also contribute toward efforts to keep it healthy. But it seems like the body positivity movement is seriously fucked up to me, it's like a bunch of people who deep down hate their bodies, and maybe themselves, desperately trying to cover that up. And convince themselves as well as everyone else. (I am sure there must be some psychological term for this?)

Anyway, it sounds like your friend is on the road to very poor health. Some of these body positivity gurus have dies recently, and it's really say sad, maybe that will help your friend make changes. It's good I think that you have said something, I hope it doesn't interfere with your relationship.

You broached that really badly. In front of people and blunt.

You're right to be concerned about your friend though

Absolutely this. You were not publicly shaming her, what you said was part of a discussion between friends. Obesity is normalised, as can be seen on most high streets in this country, and your friend’s obesity is probably going to make her very ill, very soon. Well done for speaking up.

Agree with you about the impact on health, and I don't think there's necessarily anything wrong in being honest with a friend. I think, though, that body positivity is more about accepting and liking yourself as you are (which can be hard with the messages we constantly get about image) than specifically celebrating being overweight. That in itself isn't a bad mindset.

2014 i told my best friend she was going to die before she was 50 she was 42 at the time.tried gentle but she just laughed.
i buried her 2020 dec broke my heart
tough love is needed sometimes

I also think some of the body positive gurus just downright lie. I watched Tess Holliday on tik tok claim she’s a size 24 and demonstrate this by squeezing herself into a very stretchy skirt. Filtered and heavy make up for camera combines to create a very fake and unachievable body look that just perpetuates a lie about healthy fatness.

She’s suffering from the disease obesity. She is past the stage where a lifestyle change is likely to achieve much.
Various changes in her body are massively damaging, you are right.

However she isn’t going to fix it through shame and embarrassment. Or none of us would be fat because body positivity movement or not, all fat people have experienced enough shame and embarrassment to have done the job if that were all it took.

Body positivity isn’t about encouraging people to get fat. It’s about avoiding shaming those who do, and allowing them some positives despite their size.

I think it’s hard because anything you say will be taken badly by her. But then equally why did she bring the subject up? Did she really think everyone would agree with her? I don’t think you were being unreasonable because it wasn’t you who started talking about it.
She sounds like she is in denial. How many elderly people do you see in their 80/90s who are that size?

The friend was the one bringing the subject into conversation.

OP didn’t just randomly say, ‘you’re a bit fat aren’t you?’

When people bring contentious issues into conversation it can put the listeners into a tricky place. Silence is often interpreted by the speaker as agreement. And if you thing the listener’s opinion causes harm, you are placed in a tricky moral position.

Having thought about this, I think the friend has been unreasonable by repeatedly bringing the topic up but allowing no dissent.

If she loses weight as a result if what you said, i'll eat my hat.

Because the friend tried to get the others to agree with her, through their silence if not openly, that her weight is fine.

What did you expect from the conversation though?

Did you expect her to bow to your wisdom of her weight problem and vow to never eat an ounce of fat again?

If you're genuinely concerned about her do you not think a word in private would have been better rather than embarrassing her in front of everyone?

People do not owe you their health

if they eat/drink/smoke whatever it is their business

I think body positivity is great and I think it is more productive anyway to start to learn to love yourself and your body (and maybe start making more positive health choices, if you want) rather than shame and negativity.

people who overeat often have some deep seated psychological issues (as do many people as life is hard) and it’s always kindest to just be supportive imo

your tutting and concern will not help her. I guess it might make you feel better though 🤔

I agree with your opinion, but if someone had commented on my appearance/health in front of people, I’d be quite upset.

I’d apologise, and just say that it wasn’t your place and you’re sorry for making her uncomfortable/upset.

Well done you.

The body positivity stuff is so, so insidious, it started out as celebrating all kinds of diversity as being 'good bodies', normal things like cellulite that women are often shamed for having or body hair, and things like disability representation. Then it got co opted by the pro obesity movement big time and gave lots of obese people a bunch of fairytales about how it's not their fault and their body isn't changeable and they can be healthy while obese. Just lots of non-scientific lies that have done tonnes of damage.

When you love someone, you have to be honest with them. You did her a favour even if she doesn't realise it yet. Being a loving kind friend doesn't always look like nodding along with someone's delusions while they slowly kill themselves.

Your friend is delusional.
This is NOT body positivity!
I am a size 24. I have put weight on despite eating 1800 calories max and um under investigation at a london hosp due to a genetic disorder and they think that is linked to weight.
I eat well. Don't drink or smoke. do my 10k steps a day and run 5k three times a week. Swim twice a week. Weights twice a month. Drink my 1.5litres water daily. Take supplements. ETC
I could be more active but mum life, work and complex health issues.
I try and be body positive as my weight is out of my control and I try and take care of myself as much as i can so my weight doesnt define my health.
Eating crap, drinking and being unable to walk to walk a mile isnt body positivity.

A fat adult knows they're fat.

Telling them does nothing other than let them you know you're judging them and it won't change their habits... in fact it usually leads to shame and often binging for comfort.

You are not unreasonable in your thoughts, a person who is size 30 and can't walk up a short hill is in no way healthy.

You are unreasonable for mentioning it though. She will either come to the realisation herself, or she won't.

But a lot of her body positivity talk will be because she's insecure.